Industry Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2022

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's fair enough. I take pride in having good relations with the telcos too, despite my criticism of what's going on. However, given the results we've received, not only in terms of consumer attacks—the Competition Bureau uncovered and documented the fact that some of the telcos were using improper marketing and aggressive tactics in their own telecommunications efforts—I'm just wondering whether or not this priority service is where it should be.

I know you're not keeping statistics on this, but are there arrests taking place and property seizure of some of the materials and the types of infrastructure? You mentioned in your presentation that some of that was happening. Can you give us a kind of snapshot of whether you are able to get the proper ability to do those things, or is it just basically going after the individuals on the end of the phone? I'm looking for the infrastructure that they're using. I know this is difficult, because you have domestic and international.

[Chris Lynam]

I would say it's a combination of both, or it's multi-faceted. In some cases, the RCMP has participated in large multinational operations in which we have participated globally in helping to take down infrastructure—computer hardware, computer servers and other things that cybercriminals or fraudsters need. There have also been pieces here in Canada.

Project by project it depends on the level that is taken. Then there's action also at the municipal and provincial levels as well. There are quite a few success stories in that area, where they've taken action at those levels.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I have only a little time left. If there were two things you could get to help deal with this issue, what would they be? Is it proceeds from crime so that you could actually reinvest the money that you're saving Canadians and getting back for resources? Is it law changes or whatever? If there were a couple of things we could do to help you and to help your officers, what would they be?

[Chris Lynam]

The one low-hanging fruit I would ask for, particularly in October—cybersecurity awareness month—is that all Canadians really try to be more aware of what's happening out there, and that everybody who has an ability to get the message out, including the attentive folks in this room, be a proponent of prevention efforts. That's a core part of policing. If we can prevent a lot of this stuff up front, the level of victimization will be reduced. I'd say that's where everybody can play a role in really reducing the level of victimization out there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Masse.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate your flexibility.

I am sorry if there are redundant elements. Sometimes life as a parliamentarian requires us to be in two places at once.

In the context of fraudulent calls, I am very concerned about the vulnerability of seniors.

Can you tell us if there are any new types of fraud affecting seniors that require greater awareness?

Are awareness campaigns incisive enough to reach our seniors well? Consequently, how vulnerable are they?

[Chris Lynam]

I'll let Sergeant Larocque tell you about the vulnerability of seniors in Canada.

At the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre, there is also a program that aims to help Canadian citizens.

[Sgt Guy Paul Larocque]

Thank you, Mr. Lynam.

There is no doubt that seniors are a population that fraudsters always seem to target. They are often seen as easy prey.

If I look at our statistical data, the losses associated with seniors—in our case, it's those aged 60 and over—represent about 30% of the losses that are reported to us on an annual basis. That's quite significant.

At the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre, we have a program in place that provides support for seniors. When detected by our analysts upon receipt of complaints, more vulnerable or at‑risk individuals are redirected to the CAFC's Senior Support Unit.

This is a fairly unique and fairly special program in that we have volunteer seniors who come in to help us do this part of the work. These people are often retired and come from industry, either from telecommunications, banking or other sectors. Retired teachers also support us. These people follow up calls with the elderly. In addition, they also help us make presentations to target groups, often to seniors' groups.

Our program is primarily focused in Ontario. We are currently aiming to expand this program from east to west to ensure a greater presence in Canada. Ontario is the province with the largest victim pool as it is the most populous. In that regard, our efforts are well directed there.

We are making other efforts to try to minimize the impact of fraud, whether through our social media awareness campaigns or the many media responses we receive.

For example, in the last year, just at the anti-fraud centre, we have received almost 400 media requests. The media community is very helpful in getting our message out and trying to reach as many vulnerable people as possible.

The most important thing, and often the most difficult, is to encourage victims to recognize that they are victims of fraud and to report their case to the authorities. Reporting fraud remains a key element. Our goal is to understand the schemes that target Canadians so that we can adjust our messages accordingly.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

What you are telling us sounds important to me.

You say that it is important for victims to report fraud to the authorities so that the authorities can better understand the schemes. You also mentioned the influence of the media in all this.

It's certain that my reflexes are those of a French speaker. If I receive a call in English, I suspect it may be a fraud. I can hang up immediately.

Have you seen any cases of fraudulent calls in French? Honestly, I have the impression that it happens much more in English than in French. What about the French side?

[Sgt Guy Paul Larocque]

In fact, most fraudulent calls are done in English.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

This is because of the fact that it is international.

[Sgt Guy Paul Larocque]

In a mass approach, fraudsters target as many people as possible.

That said, fraud also takes place in French, by telephone. I don't have the information on the extent of fraud and the amount of fraud reports where the initial interaction is in French. However, there are many fraudulent schemes that use the French language. This certainly demonstrates the adaptive model of fraudsters. They will adjust to their “clientele”, if I can put it that way, or their target audience, in order to maximize their profits.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

It is often said that it is people close to the elderly who defraud them. Sometimes they can even operate over the phone posing as a company or whatever.

Is this scheme used by relatives to defraud their own seniors?

[Sgt Guy Paul Larocque]

I don't have any specific information on that. There is a scheme that we see that is still quite prevalent these days: it's called the “grandparent scam.”

Fraudsters pose as a close family member who is in trouble. They have either been arrested, had an accident or need emergency funds. You'll find that these different schemes always involve the same kind of dynamics. There is often an emergency situation. They want people to act quickly.

In the grandparent scam, this is often the case. The fraudster poses as a relative who needs help—it might be a grandchild—and is caught elsewhere, in another province or community. This amplifies the urgency factor and attempts to get the victim to cave in to the pressure and send funds to the fraudster.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

We had the opportunity to do a study on the subject two years ago, at the initiative of my colleague Mr. Masse, and we are discussing the subject again.

Do you feel that, in the last two years, the issue of fraudulent calls has been treated more seriously and that the recommendations from the first study have given you additional resources?

[Sgt Guy Paul Larocque]

In terms of resources, on our side, there has certainly been investment in the fight against cybercrime. Our director general can tell you more about the progress on the National Cybercrime Coordination Unit.

Chris, would you like to speak about that aspect?

[Chris Lynam]

Yes.

We've made some investments in the last few years to stand up the national cybercrime coordination unit to work alongside the CAFC. It's important because, as I mentioned, there is this cyber-enabled aspect, and it could actually be a combination of phone and online. A recent scam or attack that's often happening is you will click on something or you get attracted, and you give your phone number and other details. Then they call you back and are further able to entrap you in perhaps an investment scam, or they are able, even in real time, to convince you to give access to your system at a company. Then they have a foot in door.

As a result, there have been quite a few investments to stand up the NC3 in the RCMP and stand up additional cybercrime investigative teams to address this with a more holistic approach.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

I will now yield the floor to Ms. Gray for five minutes.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here. Thank you for your service as well.

I want to start my questions today around something that we haven't talked about yet: SIM swapping and phone porting scams, which were brought forth as a concern during this committee's last study on this back in 2020.

It was reported in September 2021 that the CRTC logged nearly 25,000 cases of porting and SIM swapping fraud between August 2019 and May 2020. I was wondering if you had any statistics from the RCMP end on how many criminal reports were filed on this, and how many arrests, investigations, etc., occurred between 2019 and now.

[Sgt Guy Paul Larocque]

Thank you.

I don't have any specific numbers on SIM swapping. One thing that I've noticed at my centre is that the reporting is low on those instances, but it could also be directly related to identity fraud. If I link that to identity fraud, then obviously I have a significant increase over the past two or three years in terms of identity fraud reported.

On our end, we are under the impression that SIM swapping has decreased with some of the measures that have been put in place by the industry to prevent it. Right now, it's much harder to take the SIM card from your phone and swap it to a different phone without any additional layers of verification to be completed.

[Chris Lynam]

I'm just going to add one, and it applies to SIM swapping scams and others.

Folks have probably seen in a lot of their applications the broader application of multifactor authentication. When you go to log in to a bank or something, it's not just your password that gets you in there; you have to do something else, whether it's a text message with a code or what have you, and the application of that is very impactful. It is a great measure to reduce a fraudster's or a cybercriminal's ability to either get into your system or scam you.

As we're seeing that being rolled out further across all types of industry, it is a having a positive effect on reducing things.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Great. Thank you.

Did I hear you say that some of those numbers might be just lumped all together into fraud reporting in general and that maybe it's not being separated out as much as it used to be? Is that what you are saying, potentially?

[Sgt Guy Paul Larocque]

It's because we don't track a specific category on SIM swapping. Typically when we get a report of that, it would be subcategorized under identity fraud or identity theft, because we track both.

Over the past two years, as I mentioned, we've seen a sharp increase in those areas, but the main reason that we saw that increase is that there have been many Canadians whose identities have been used to fraudulently obtain financial assistance. With that, we saw the rise in reportings of identity fraud.

As I mentioned with the SIM swapping itself, it's not something for which I have precise figures, so it's difficult for me to give you an exact number when I don't have that type of data.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

Do you have numbers—and you may not have them here today, but they may be something that you could table—with respect to reports that you get and investigations and arrests? Of course, the CRTC has its reports that it does, but then you have your own investigations. Is that something that you would be able to table for this committee to include with this report?