Industry Committee on Oct. 20th, 2022

[Tyler Fulton]

Well, I'd say that as cattle producers we really consider ourselves to be the original environmentalists. To that degree, when we see a bill that has “green economy” for the Prairies, in particular, it seems to check lots of boxes for us. Of course, the devil would be in the details.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Is it less about the bill and more about consultation, or is it about the bill creating this more structured consultation? Is it fair to put it that way?

Even if you take the bill out of the equation, you still want better consultation and process. Is it fair enough to say that you're intrigued by the potential of the bill?

[Tyler Fulton]

To both points I'd say yes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those are my questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

It's now over to Mrs. Wagantall for five minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much, Chair.

I appreciate listening here to the conversation going on at this moment. We're hearing a lot about consultation. The bill actually says, “In developing the framework, the Minister must consult” government, all of the ministers, indigenous bodies and the private sector. I am concerned because the responsibility for developing the framework is with the federal government. What I'm hearing is that you'll be consulted, which is a step forward—I honestly say that.

For the elephant in the room, the reality is that my province and I think the prairie provinces have not felt heard, listened to, or respected in regard to the work. This is what I'm hearing from you today, especially the cattlemen and Mr. Austin. You do a great deal and continue to do a great deal. If there's opportunity for communication and to work together, that's a good thing.

However, I'm reading a note from this past summer when the federal government met in Saskatoon with territorial and provincial counterparts and stakeholders to develop what's known as the agricultural policy framework—because the federal government does have a role. They discussed how governments can help the agriculture industry reduce its greenhouse gas emissions and become more climate-resilient. Those are good words, and yet I hear from you about all of the things the cattlemen's association has been doing for a long time, yet there's been no recognition of that in this process of developing this green Prairies concept. What I hear from you is that incentives are important, rather than being denied an opportunity to consult and be part of the process, and to do what you know best.

Am I hearing you right on that to some degree? I know it's a tricky circumstance. You're being asked if you support this bill today. I think what I'm hearing is that you want to support working together, and that needs to be done. There is also a certain level of accountability that belongs to my province, for sure, in Saskatchewan, in developing the resources that are there, which of course make a difference in this entire country when it comes to our GDP and the wealth of our nation.

I would first of all ask the cattlemen's association folks this: How important is that whole area of incentives? They say here that they want to do a pilot for those “who adopt environmental practices that also reduce production risks.” I can't think of any other business that is more concerned about the environment and ensuring that they protect that environment while also reducing risks to their production.

[Tyler Fulton]

I think you fully understand the cattle sector across Canada.

I'll add one item that hasn't been mentioned previously. One of the other environmental goods that come from cattle on the landscape is that we make the landscape more resilient to climate change by virtue of protecting against fires—we actually have a good video resource for that as well—or flooding. I can reference it directly from Manitoba this year that those pasturelands make the whole landscape more resilient to the effects of climate change.

To go back to your point about incentives, it's really more about recognition, as Mark mentioned earlier. It's recognition of the fact that these are the awesome environmental benefits that come from having cattle on the landscape. They're just not going to be there if we as cattle farmers and ranchers aren't there.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

As an example, Tyler, to reach out to you.... As you say, you really are the experts.

I know there was a case where grazing was shut down because there was a concern with how it was impacting other species. They especially mentioned the grouse. Then, when they got that grass growing as tall as it did, the grouse left because historically grasslands have been grazed. It was not a beneficial thing to shut down the grazing on those grasslands.

Are you familiar with that kind of concept?

[Tyler Fulton]

Absolutely. You're referencing, in particular, Grasslands National Park in southern Saskatchewan. It took them a decade to understand the importance of that symbiosis. It's a thing—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

The ranchers had already understood that.

[Tyler Fulton]

Yes, that's exactly what I was going to say. You've captured it.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Is there anything else from those who participated this morning on the ranching side of the equation? It's true there's not enough reference here to our grasslands and how crucial they are to our healthy environment.

[Dr. Melanie Wowk]

I just wanted to add that when being asked to do this, oftentimes we're put in a defensive position of the things people think we're doing. It's just been very refreshing to come here and be able to explain the good things that we do, the good things our cattle do, and how important the environment is to us and to our businesses.

I would just like to thank the committee for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

We will now turn to Mr. Fillmore for the last five minutes of questions.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thanks, Chair.

Thanks very much to the witnesses for joining us, in person and virtually, and for your time and your expertise today. It's been a fascinating discussion.

I spent a great deal of time on the small modular reactor file, and I agree with you that it's going to be a part of our green mix in the future. The grasslands conversation has been entirely new to me, and I'm really happy to learn about the cattle industry and the importance of the grasslands. Thank you for enlightening us in that way.

We are living in a time when extreme weather events and natural disasters are increasing in severity and frequency. In my part of the country, we just lived through hurricane Fiona. On the other coast, there were heat domes and forest fires. In your part of the world, it's drought. We know that cattle ranchers have faced critical shortages of feed and water when they're supplying their herds for the winter.

I'd just like to do a poll of the three witness groups. Would you agree that we need to recognize the importance of building a green economy in the Prairies to combat the climate change that is creating this hardship for the cattle producers?

Maybe we'll start with the Alberta group, please.

[Dr. Melanie Wowk]

Definitely, we agree that we have to be a part of this conversation, but at the end of the day we have to remember that beef production in Canada represents 2.4% of the total greenhouse gas emissions. Oftentimes we look at that, but we forget....

That's part of the reason why we came here. We've forgotten about the other end of the equation, which is where someone like me—the cow-calf producer—sits, and which is what we're doing with carbon, with grasslands, with trees and with everything else. Part of our reason for being here is that even though we are such a small part of it, we are still continually willing to try to work toward improving it.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thanks for that.

Could we go to the Canadian Cattle Association on the question of the hardship the industry is facing because of extreme weather, drought and so forth? What are your feelings on whether what this bill proposes would mitigate the impacts of climate change through efforts to green the economy?

[Tyler Fulton]

We're living climate change weekly, it seems, if not annually. I can say that the eastern part of the Prairies was impacted by pretty significant flooding this year as well. We're just seeing major shifts one way or the other. Critically, we need systems that make us all more resilient. To the degree that this bill would help with that, we're definitely supportive.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thanks for that.

Speaking of systems, one of the elements of the bill is to work together to improve transportation systems. Would you then agree that we need to recognize the importance of improving transportation systems so that we can distribute food and water supplies in a much more predictable manner, and then of course get the product to market when that time comes?

Let's again start with the Alberta group.

[Dr. Melanie Wowk]

Transportation is a nightmare for us right now, whether it's getting our cattle around or whether it's getting feed to cattle. I don't know if everybody remembers the potential rail strike we faced last December. That really scared us.

Definitely, transportation is something that we have to look at. It seems that post-COVID, it's just gone into a tailspin. We are definitely looking for help in that area as well.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thanks.

Can I hear from the Canadian Cattle Association?

[Tyler Fulton]

As I said, our members are living it. I would also reference the rail failures that happened when the heavy flooding happened in the Lower Mainland, and even in the interior of B.C. after the droughts and forest fires last year. That really upended the supply chain for many of our members. Those types of strategic infrastructure investments are critical to being more resilient to our changing climate.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thanks for that.

If anyone else on the screen would like to jump in on the importance of building a green economy or improving transportation systems, I would give you the opportunity to do so.

[Dennis Laycraft]

Maybe I can put my hand up.

It isn't all just infrastructure, as we move on this. I know of one company that has 40 trucks sitting today because they cannot get drivers. All of these other things are important, but we do need to address that labour issue. It's very critical across Canada, but I know that it's very critical in the Prairies, where you have vast distances where products need to be transported.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thanks for that.

I've directed the questions so far to the grasslands, but Mr. Austin, if you have any comment on any of that, it would be great.