Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Feb. 20th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

Just to summarize, the metrics here are shrinking export market; increasing trade deficit; continued problems with copyright and property rights; and what some companies, as you've just said, characterize as industrial espionage. That would seem to be the metric of the economic relationship, of the status quo ante policy. Is that success or failure on the economic front?

[Paul Evans]

I think the metric for measuring the Canada–China economic relationship includes all of the things you mentioned, but is much bigger. Essentially, Canadian competitiveness and the productivity of our manufacturing depends upon deeper integration with global production systems, of which China is a crucial part.

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

I have one last question.

[Sergio Marchi]

Could I also—

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

Mr. Marchi, I have a particular question for you. It's my last question.

On page 11 you—

[Sergio Marchi]

But I don't want my silence to acquiesce with your assumption.

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

My question was for Mr. Evans.

[Sergio Marchi]

Oh, I thought it was for both of us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

On page 11 of your submission, you say, “Canada has something to lose: its reputation; and that should not be given up lightly.”

How are you suggesting Canada might be losing its reputation or could lose its reputation in China? Are you suggesting that with a government that is more aggressively asserting Canada's concerns vis-à-vis human rights, we would be losing our reputation? What would that reputation be that we would be losing?

[Sergio Marchi]

It goes back to the whole issue of building a relationship, having mutual trust and respect in that relationship, understanding some of the respective challenges that both sides have, and trying to work out our differences in a civil manner. There is therefore a reputation.

Whether it was Mr. Diefenbaker selling wheat to the Chinese, Mr. Trudeau opening up the way to China, Mr. Mulroney being very progressive, Mr. Chrétien, or Mr. Martin, there has been a tradition and a reputation built up about how we approach our relationship with China. It's what we are pointing to in that phrase.

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

Thank you very much, both of you.

I know you're both very busy, and we certainly appreciate your contribution to the committee's hearings. Thank you very much.

We have committee business. We'll move in camera, and I'll ask our guests to leave.

Do we have to move in camera to discuss this? No, I don't think we do. If the committee is fine with it, we'll proceed with the motions before us in a regular session. Is that all right?

Mr. Marston, they're your motions. Is there a problem with that?

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I think the motions actually speak for themselves, and it doesn't require a lot of speaking to them.

Canada was very involved with the optional protocol at the United Nations, as everybody would know. The Prime Minister in the last campaign spoke to the fact that he would be putting this before a committee fairly early in his mandate, which hasn't happened. I think it's the purview of this particular committee to take witnesses and to offer recommendation to our senior committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

All right.

Mr. Silva.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Is it possible to amend the motion? It's a great motion that ties into some of the work we're doing and that we hope to do on Iran as well. Is there any possibility of adding “also Iran”?

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

Are these two separate motions or is it one motion?

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

They're two separate motions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

You're first of all speaking to what?

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Optional protocol.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

That's fine. There's no problem.

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

Is that what you're talking about?

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

No, I'm sorry. It's the second one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

That's all right.

The motion is before the committee, the first motion:

That the Subcommittee on International Human Rights study, invite witnesses to testify, and make recommendation to Parliament on Canada' s adherence to the Optional Protocol to the United Nations Convention Against Torture.

Mr. Marston has spoken to his motion. Can we call the question?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Jason Kenney]

We've received appropriate notice for the second motion. Would you like to speak to it?

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I'll speak to the suggestion of an amendment. I have no concerns about addressing the same motion to Iran, but it seems to be stretching it a little bit at this point.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I will actually withdraw mine, because I was looking more at the convention. I realize we haven't yet signed the optional convention on torture, but I was wondering more about the convention in relation to both China and Iran. I realize there's a separation in your two motions, so I withdraw my amendment.