Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on June 13th, 2019

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

Thank you very much.

I also note that the bells are ringing. Do I have the consent of the committee to continue? We could do the one last question of this round, or we could probably get in another three or four questions if we leave 10 minutes before since we're in the same building. Is that okay?

All right. Go ahead, Ms. Hardcastle.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for your work and for your insights here today.

I want to go back and talk a little about moving forward and how Canada can be more vocal, more impactful, in the international community. It was suggested that we need to stand up and we need to raise voices and as an international community we have to leverage certain things better. One thing that intrigued me was that you talked about the mobile clinics and about this issue of medical supplies.

Has Canada or has the international community spoken out effectively so far on ceasefires or humanitarian corridors or identifying the support that's needed specifically to get, let's say, medical supplies to a specific area, or have we just been speaking in generalities thus far?

I'd like both of you to explore and talk a little about how we can be moving the needle, so to speak, or advancing, if we look at specific issues or specific areas. Another one would be whether there are areas where we could be concentrating on deactivating landmines or other specific work. I'll leave it at that.

Maybe we can start with you, Doctor, and I'll give you both the remainder of my time to comment on ways that we can specifically work towards providing that access.

[Dr. Anas Al-Kassem]

I think we have two avenues and we'd want to mix of the two. The political solution.... This war has been going for seven years now—the worst humanitarian crisis on earth for a decade or more. The problem is that we did not achieve any political solution.

Unfortunately, Russia is part of the issue, because they're supporting the Syrian regime and they're not really backing up finding a political solution. I think we should continue putting pressure on Russia and Turkey and all these players on the ground to find a political solution, a ceasefire, a no-fly zone, and to respect the civilians. We have to keep pressuring them.

On the other hand, I find that the Canadian government could do a little more of an immediate release of funds for emergency medical aid, for humanitarian aid, because there is a crisis going on in Idlib now. We're not talking about millions and millions of dollars, but as I mentioned, in our estimation we need about half a million dollars for medical supplies and probably a similar amount for the mobile clinics. These are crucial in Idlib when the villages are attacked, because they can move between the villages to the camps and the areas where displaced children and women from all ethnicities are found and provide medication, assessment, screening and so forth. They can then transfer these people safely to the border hospitals, such as the one we have at the border, the Bab al-Hawa.

I think there are two avenues. I hope the Canadian government can start immediately with emergency funds to help such organizations working in the war zone, and then keep pushing on the political avenue as well.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Windsor.

[Miles Windsor]

Just to add to that, I think there's a sense that there's been a certain amount of fatigue over the conflict and the crisis in Syria. It's losing its profile in the media in terms of the public agenda. I think we need to make sure it stays on the agenda, that we are highlighting and bringing to the attention of the public and the world what is happening in these places. That should be part of the strategy for pushing Turkey and Russia to fulfill their obligations to change tack in the way that they're operating in Syria.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

We'll now go to Ms. Khalid. Try to keep it under four minutes.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I have just a small question. In April 2019 the Canadian government condemned what was happening in Syria. We announced $2 million in funding to provide support for the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. I know we talked about this earlier. Do you think that kind of support is helpful in curbing what is going on, or do you think the focus of the government should be more on providing the medical relief and the humanitarian aid?

Dr. Anas, would you comment on that, please?

[Dr. Anas Al-Kassem]

I think we need more emergency funding for the operation of the clinics, particularly the large hospitals such as Bab al-Hawa and the mobile clinics. There is a lot of stress, a lot of pressure, on these few remaining clinics and facilities in northern Syria. If they fall apart, the women and children we witness on a daily basis with these injuries due to the air strikes will have nowhere to go, particularly because, as we mentioned earlier, the Turkish, Lebanese and Jordanian borders have been pretty much closed against them.

We need to understand that it's not like 2015 and 2016, when the borders were sort of open. Currently, we have a real crisis. We need to put some emergency funds on the ground in Idlib.

We met before with Foreign Affairs Canada and they mentioned that because of the military action, Idlib is not a major interest for them. I hope they change their interest now, because we have no way for these refugees, for the injured, to get outside Syria. We have to focus on that area on a humanitarian and emergency basis, put some emergency funds forward for these clinics, for these humanitarian organizations, particularly the hospitals taking in all the injured.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you. Those are all the questions I have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Both of you touched a bit on the displacement of local communities, and I asked a question about that earlier, but one of the things we studied previously was the Nineveh plain and people trying to return to that area, finding that their communities were under the control of other people and that the justice system wasn't functional. I'm wondering if both of you would like to comment on that.

I think, Mr. Windsor, you made a comment on that issue. Could you fill that out a little, and the doctor could follow you? As these people are returning to their communities, in areas where they can, what are they finding? Are the structures in place to allow them to return to the communities and be able to successfully integrate, if you want to call it that, or reintegrate with their neighbours and the people whom they lived with in the past?

[Miles Windsor]

The challenge at the moment in the Nineveh plain is largely different from what we see in Syria, but in the Nineveh plain there is a degree of lawlessness, where militants from the Popular Mobilization Units are creating instability and intimidation and harassment. There is also a sense that there is this demographic engineering that's happening, where areas that would have been traditionally of one religious group are being developed so that people are buying properties and putting up religious buildings, religious party headquarters and that sort of thing. There's a sense that these moves are designed to discourage the return of refugees and IDPs to these areas, to these towns, because there's still a sense that there isn't the stability they need to bring their families back there.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

What do you see in Syria, then, as well? Is it similar to that, or is it different because the government has re-established control?

[Miles Windsor]

In terms of Syria, I think that there isn't a sense, certainly, that there are disproportionate numbers of Christians, for example, who have left Syria. What affects Christians in Syria affects a lot of other groups and minorities. They've fled because of not only the general security situation but the lack of economic prospects and opportunity and fear of forcible conscription to the Syrian army, rather than necessarily the targeting of specific Christian communities. It's a different sort of tension.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

It's a different situation.

Doctor, what would be your response to that?

[Dr. Anas Al-Kassem]

In areas like Zabadani, which is a suburb of Damascus, when it was controlled by the regime, unfortunately, I've heard from many of my colleagues.... This is an area I used to visit when I was a child, almost on a weekly basis. It's a beautiful area on the mountain. I've heard from my colleagues that their lands have been taken over by Hezbollah, which is the main military group on the ground currently, and they're identified as terrorists as well. They have control of the lands so that the people won't be able to go back to their lands, and that's my concern about Idlib. In that area there are lots of Christians and Muslims who have lived there for years and years, a beautiful area in the middle of Damascus. I've been there many times in the past visiting them in the summer.

My concern is that, if the Syrian regime or Daesh or one of these groups controls these areas, I don't think the people will be able to go back to their own lands and their houses.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Just for clarity, is Hezbollah aligned with Assad's regime in that area?

[Dr. Anas Al-Kassem]

That's correct, 100%. In this area of the Damascus suburb, they are allied with the Syrian regime and they have control of lands on the ground.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

Thank you very much.

For one final short question, go ahead, Ms. Hardcastle.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you.

Doctor, maybe you can just expand on that a little. I don't know if we'll have time for Mr. Windsor to chime in. Just talk to us about these rebel groups that are in Idlib and what the potential is. You discussed a political solution earlier. Are there opportunities there that we should be looking at if we look at these groups?

[Dr. Anas Al-Kassem]

The rebel groups controlling Idlib are mixed. Some groups are considered extreme, like the Hayat Nusra, as they call them. There are other groups that are just people who defected from the Syrian regime. They are regular people and even civilians who are trying to defend themselves, their women and their children, in the gap area of Idlib and northern Hama. I know many physicians and many families in the area. They were just regular civilian people. It's mixed, really.

At least if Russia is mandating Hayat Nusra to be out, I think we should work on that because I suspect this is the reason they're wiping out the area. I think they want to just declare that they won the war and they control the whole of Syria, after being engaged heavily with the Russian air forces since September 2015. I think we should continue the avenue of discussion with Turkey and Russia and the local groups on the ground. If we can get these rebels out of the Idlib area, we'll see if Russia will stop. Although, I doubt they will stop the attacks.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Windsor.

[Miles Windsor]

I rarely get the opportunity to agree with my co-contributors as much as I've had the opportunity today. The doctor has identified one of the main challenges in terms of those groups and in terms of the mixed character. There are extremists, but even within the groups themselves there will often be a mix of extremists and more moderate factions. It makes it very challenging to have a real sense of who would be the people to speak to and what the picture would look like if any of these particular groups or rebel factions gained any success or support. It's difficult to identify a solution that way. As the doctor said, we just need to be pushing for increased dialogue and holding the other actors in this field to account.

[The Chair, Liberal, Anita Vandenbeld]

Thank you very much. I want to thank you, Dr. Anas Al-Kassem and Miles Windsor, for your testimony today.

We will now suspend the meeting while we go to vote. We'll release our witnesses. When we come back we will get our update on the human rights situation in Cameroon.

We are suspending.