Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on June 22nd, 2021

[The Clerk]

Mr. Chair, when he was speaking slowly and asking to repeat, the interpreter was able to follow.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Mr. Maley, we'd ask that you just slow your cadence in terms of your speaking.

I stopped the time, so I think we have, I'd say, a minute left, MP Chiu. Then we'll go to the next member.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to give 15 seconds for Professor Maley to finish his comment. After that, I'd like to have Ms. Kerr comment.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Go ahead.

[Dr. William Maley]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My broad point is that Iran is not a reliable source of protection for Hazaras who are vulnerable within Afghanistan. It really falls in the lap of the wider world to perform some protective responsibilities with respect to those people.

[Melissa Kerr Chiovenda, Assistant Professor of Anthropology, Zayed University, Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, Canadian Hazara Humanitarian Services]

I would like to add that I'm in full agreement with everything that Professor Maley said. In addition to not being a reliable source of protection and being quite abusive towards Hazaras, Iran....

There is not really any mechanism for Hazaras to gain permanent asylum in Iran, despite the fact that they have the same Shia religion. People, refugees who have been in Iran even for generations, Hazaras who have been born in Iran, often find themselves just depending on the whim of the government. All of a sudden they are in the same situation where they might be facing deportation or might be facing something else. You find that not only are Hazara refugees fleeing Afghanistan but also there are a number of Hazara refugees who are fleeing the situation in Iran, which they may have actually been born into, so Iran definitely can't be counted on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you. That does conclude the time.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Chiu.

We are moving to MP Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe. For those who are not bilingual, you may want to select “English” or “French”, whatever you may need, if you need interpretation.

Alexis, you're on.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the House interpreters. They are doing an exceptional job in these times of pandemic, allowing us to hold these meetings with no problem.

I also want to thank the witnesses; they are teaching us as well as shedding light on current events. For that, I am very grateful to them.

This question is for all the witnesses, and I would like the floor to be open to anyone who wants to respond, because each one of you has your own experiences.

My question is quite general. Our research tells us that Afghanistan's constitution states that followers of religions other than Islam are free to exercise their faith and perform their religious rites within the limits of the law. Can you tell us what those limits are?

[Dr. Niamatullah Ibrahimi, Lecturer in International Relations, La Trobe University, Australia, Canadian Hazara Humanitarian Services]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and honourable members of the committee.

With regard to this question, as you mentioned, in Afghanistan, it's another foreign constitution and an extended set of provisos that—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I am sorry to have to raise a point of order.

The interpreter apologizes, but she is unfortunately unable to do her job.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Ibrahimi, could you please unplug your headset and then plug it in again to make sure that it is properly selected?

[Dr. Niamatullah Ibrahimi]

Okay

I was trying to say that in the 2004 constitution there is an extended set of rights granted to Afghan citizens that includes the right to practise their religion.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Chair, the sound is not adequate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I'm sorry, Mr. Ibrahimi. We're going to have to move to another witness until....

[Dr. Niamatullah Ibrahimi]

Okay.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, this is the committee's final meeting. We can talk about it later…

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I am not receiving interpretation.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

This is the committee's final meeting before the break.

I certainly do not want Mr. Ibrahimi to have no opportunity to speak. I think we have a technical difficulty. I would let Mr. Ibrahimi…

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I think we'll have to fix his headset.

Do you want to hear from another witness besides Mr. Ibrahimi?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

No, I would like to hear what Mr. Ibrahimi has to say anyway.

[Dr. Niamatullah Ibrahimi]

Would you like me to try one more time?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I will go onto the floor channel and listen in English.

Our interpreters are unfortunately unable to do their work because of the technical difficulties. I am prepared to get this done before the break. So, despite the Official Languages Act—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Mr. Ibrahimi, you will have to wear a headset.