Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on June 22nd, 2021

[Dr. Niamatullah Ibrahimi]

I'll try to be slow and brief.

Afghanistan's 2004 constitution provides an extensive set of rights for citizens of Afghanistan. That includes the right to practise religion, including for non-Muslims, but in practice, people of various religious backgrounds, including many Muslims, face daily discrimination and persecution at different levels. I would like to echo what members of the Sikh community have shared today, because as an Afghan human rights worker, I have also researched the Afghan Sikh community situation in Afghanistan.

I would also like to remind you of the fact that behind me are the images of the young girls who died on May 8 at the Sayed Al-Shuhada high school in the Dasht-e-Barchi area of Kabul. This is an area that is populated by Shia Hazara Muslims. That attack took 85 young people. Many were students in years 7 and 11. These were typical teenagers that you would find anywhere around the world, and they would have dreams to live a normal life.

As we can see, the Taliban is stepping up its attacks in Afghanistan. In many ways, that is a reversal of some of those rights that were provided to different groups in Afghanistan. While Hazaras are the primary targets of the escalation of violence and attacks across Afghanistan and Kabul, there are also increasing attacks and restrictions placed on other groups. It is difficult to be in Afghanistan if you are, let us say, a liberal Afghan. We have seen a series of targeted assassinations directed towards Afghan journalists, society groups and people who hold different views that are incompatible with those of the Taliban.

At the centre of all of this is the fact that these attacks are directed at Hazaras in Dasht-e-Barchi, this area in Kabul. For these Hazaras, this area represents much of what has been achieved over the past 20 years of international intervention in Afghanistan. Now, all of those gains are under threat. You see young women going to schools—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I apologize. I am going to have to interject.

I understand that the way that this is working for the interpreters would be in contravention of the Official Languages Act. It is not possible. We cannot continue this. We are going to move to another witness due to these issues. I apologize.

[Jasjeet S. Ajimal]

Mr. Chair, I'm happy to speak to the matter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Yes, Mr. Ajimal.

I saw Mr. Ajimal's hand go up first and then Mr. Singh's.

[Jasjeet S. Ajimal]

Carrying on from what Mr. Ibrahimi was saying, these aren't isolated incidents. From the Sikh community, we had a member who went from Helmand to Kabul, and before travelling to India, he was shot in a populated marketplace. These are targeted attacks on religious minorities. Although laws may be in place, these laws are not enforced. Afghanistan does not have a stable grip on the situation. They're not able to protect members of the Sikh community nor, as colleagues have stated, members of the Hazara community.

Although laws may be in place, they're not practised. These are policies that are just on paper. In reality, these folks are targeted. They are killed in populated markets. They are kidnapped. They are not able to practice their faith whatsoever. There are targeted bombing attacks, and if they try to assemble in any shape or form, they are attacked. A number of cases have occurred and have been widely reported.

What we fear are future attacks, which as my colleague Mr. Singh stated, are imminent. It's just a matter of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Just so everybody is aware, the clerk did inform me that we were in contravention and that's why we had to move away from Mr. Ibrahimi. I've added a couple of extra minutes to your time, Alexis, so you still have another two and half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think that Mr. Singh wanted to add something. I would be curious to hear what he has to say.

[Gurvinder Singh]

Yes, sir. First of all, thank you for the question. There are two things. One thing is the law in written format, and then the law in practice.

It's completely different when you go to practice. Sikhs, Hindus and minorities have actually had to pay the jeziah, which is a tax for all non-Muslims living in Afghanistan. That's first and foremost.

Second, the targeting and wanton destruction of minorities is at such a state that after the Kabul bomb blast, Sikhs were not even allowed to have a funeral procession in peace. The procession was targeted. There were bombs placed along the route. There were bombs placed in front of Sikh homes and gurdwaras. Then, after the procession actually got to the funeral pyre to do the funeral, another bomb went off. This is continued targeting and continued assassination.

In short form, it's a complete genocide of minorities who are at any odds with those who do not profess their faith. Again, even to live, you are just trying to breathe. It's difficult because [Technical difficulty—Editor] simply to exist. You have to live in inferiority and you have to live in fear.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Singh.

I would now like to hear from Ms. Chiovenda, if we have any time left.

[Melissa Kerr Chiovenda]

I would just like to add, in response to this question about whether laws are enforced, that yes, this is part of the constitution. In some instances, the Afghan government has in fact contradicted this. There was, for example, a Hazara who was placed in jail for blasphemy because of something he wrote regarding Buddhism and the Bamiyan Buddha statues, which you guys might know had been exploded by the Taliban in 2001.

A lot of these actions, events and bombings, in the case of Hazaras, of mosques and Shia mosques and centres, or the attacks on the Sikh community as well, are not carried out by the Afghan government, of course. The Afghan government is not, however, providing adequate protection. We don't know for sure if they're unable or unwilling, but at this point it doesn't really matter. They're either unable or unwilling.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Chiovenda.

Now we're moving to MP McPherson for seven minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of our witnesses today. This is incredibly compelling testimony and very important information for us to be gathering from you. The question that I really want to understand and maybe get quite a bit of clarity on if I could, is the current context we're in.

Of course, we know right now that we are in the middle of a COVID-19 pandemic. Different places around the world are responding differently and are at different points in recovery from that, but we also know that the United States is pulling out and that Canada's pulling out after spending a significant investment in Afghanistan, after spending significant time talking about the importance of ensuring that rights for women and girls are protected, for example.

I'm just wondering. Has this violence against both the Hazara and the Sikh populations...? What does it look like? Has it gone up significantly? Has the increase been significant? How much of that is related to COVID? The challenges around COVID, is that providing cover for what's being done by the Taliban? How much of that is because of the withdrawal? I would like to get an understanding of the context in terms of the withdrawal and COVID-19, the global pandemic.

Mr. Maley, if I could start with you that would be wonderful.

[Dr. William Maley]

Thank you very much.

There has been a very significant escalation in violence against minorities in the period since the signing on the 29th of February 2020 of the bilateral agreement between the United States and the Taliban. That's not to suggest that there wasn't significant violence before that, indeed there was, but there's been an escalation.

The reason I think is that the agreement between the U.S. and the Taliban provided for, as it were, a moratorium on Taliban attacks on the forces of the United States and its allies, but the effect in practice has been to channel attacks by the Taliban against targets within the Afghan community. It inadvertently incentivized those kinds of attacks. If the aim of enemies of the Afghan state is to put on display, symbolically, the incapacity of the state to provide protection to the general public and, in a sense, discharge a key state function, then killing minorities is a very effective way of sending the signal that the government is impotent because in this kind of situation, as Hobbes once said, the “Reputation of power is power”.

The Americans with their agreement boosted the reputation of the Taliban and undermined the reputation of the Afghan government. Attacks on minorities since then have aggravated that particular problem. In a sense it's likely that in any situation of similar dimensions minorities will find themselves significantly under attack and for that reason I don't see any likelihood that we're going to witness a diminution of such attacks in the near future.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Ajimal, would you perhaps like to jump in?

[Jasjeet S. Ajimal]

To add to that, before the troops were leaving the Sikh and Hindu communities in Afghanistan had to pay a jeziah tax, a special tax to the Taliban, in order to survive. When ISIS came in different parts of Afghanistan, they had to pay ISIS. The tax is utilized by these terrorist organizations to not only persecute these minorities, but under their law determine a way to kill them, as in they will raise the tax to a point where these people cannot pay and then in their eyes it's okay to go and target these people for killing. It's also a way to fund their crime and continue to fund their terrorism.

As the troops are departing the situation is going to escalate. These folks, just like the professor mentioned, will continue to get a larger amount of tax. They will continue to be persecuted not only for symbolic reasons that they're maintaining control but also to finance the terrorism.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much for that.

What I'm also hearing from you, and that we've heard from all of the witnesses today, is that the urgency for Canada and other international bodies to act is very pressing because of course it is not a matter of if. It is a matter of when. At the point that we're right now, does Canada have a role to play in terms of the peace process, in terms of what's happening on the ground, in terms of protecting minorities in Afghanistan as part of that?

We have heard that Canada needs to do more, particularly once COVID is done, in terms of bringing people to Canada and allowing people to settle in Canada and make their homes here. Do we have a role to play in Afghanistan during this peace process, and what is that role?

Mr. Ajimal, maybe you would have something you could present on that?

[Jasjeet S. Ajimal]

Yes, I can absolutely respond.

At this point in time, it's essential that these people flee. At this point in time, there is no viable solution in Afghanistan for these religious minorities. They continue to be persecuted. The government is unstable at the moment, and as the troops leave, the stability.... Although it may stabilize over time, any religious population or religious minorities residing in rural areas absolutely will be targeted immediately.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Ibrahimi, do you want to add anything to that? I know that I'm running out of time.

[Dr. Niamatullah Ibrahimi]

I will be very quick. I hope the sound is working this time.

I think Canada can do two things immediately. One is to support a UN-led commission of inquiry into the recent incidents of violence in Afghanistan. This is a move that is called for by the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission in an investigation into [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I apologize. I have just been informed by the clerk that it's not possible. He can't speak. There's no interpretation.

You have 10 seconds left, Heather. Do you want to just conclude?

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Yes. I'll cede my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you very much, MP McPherson.

Now we are moving to our second round of questions. This is going to be a five-minute round from members.

Members, I also want to let you know that we're going to have a vote shortly. When the bells start, I'm looking for unanimous consent from everybody such that whoever is on that question will let that questioner finish up. Then we will have to conclude the session.

Is that an okay from everybody? Okay. Thank you very much.

For the second round, we have MP Zuberi for five minutes.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I would like to thank all of the witnesses for coming here and educating us. It's not that we were unaware of a lot of the concerns you're raising, but I think it's really bringing this into sharper focus for some of us.

For me, at the beginning of COVID, I have friends in the World Sikh Organization who reached out to me to let me know about the urgency of the situation for Sikhs and Hindus in Afghanistan. I'm just letting you know that it's something that I personally and many of my colleagues are highly sensitive to.

I would like to pick up on what Heather was asking about with respect to that. We do know that Afghanistan is not safe for minorities and that there are continuous bomb blasts and targeted attacks, although if there could be some exposé by those who have some solutions as to what we can do as a country to help bolster the position of minorities over there in Afghanistan and to do our part to try to protect minorities over there.... If there are any other suggestions, I would like to open up the floor, please, along those lines.

Could we have Balpreet and Mr. Maley, please?

[Balpreet Singh]

I will just say that there is really no trust left amongst the Sikh community in what the government can do. It's not that the government is necessarily targeting or wants to drive out these minorities. It's just that they're unable to provide protection. For example, in the individual suicide attack on the Kabul gurdwara in March, he was dressed in a security uniform, so when they posted more security officers to the gurdwara, the community was actually afraid. They've done token things like announcing that there will be a cultural day to celebrate the Afghan Hindu and Sikh contributions. That doesn't really mean anything.

In terms of protections, the government is able to offer limited protection in Kabul and no protection in the other areas. On my own watch, we have seen the three communities—Kabul, Jalalabad and Ghazni—be reduced to just Jalalabad and Kabul. The entire population of Sikhs and Hindus in Ghazni has left. The options available to the community are to flee. The government isn't able to help.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Balpreet.

Mr. Maley.