Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on May 10th, 2022

[The Chair, Mr. Ali Ehsassi (Willowdale, Lib.)]

Welcome, everyone, to meeting number 10 of the Subcommittee on International Human Rights.

Today we'll be looking further at the situation of human rights in Ukraine.

Let me provide a quick reminder to all those present in the room to please follow the recommendations from the public health authorities, as well as the directives of the Board of Internal Economy, to remain healthy and safe.

I'd like to welcome our first witness today. Natasha Power Cayer is the ambassador and permanent delegate at UNESCO.

Ambassador Cayer, thank you for joining us. I know that for you it's the middle of the night. You were very gracious to accommodate us. We very much look forward to your remarks.

You have five minutes to provide your remarks, after which the members have an opportunity to ask you questions.

The floor is yours, Madam Ambassador.

[Natasha Power Cayer, Ambassador, Permanent Delegate of Canada, UNESCO]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Members of the committee, I am honoured to be here today as permanent delegate of Canada to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, UNESCO, to participate in this important study.

I would like to begin by saying a few words on Canada's work at UNESCO, in general.

Our main role is to exert influence so that Canada's political priorities would be reflected in UNESCO's policies, including those related to human rights and to normative activities. That is how we have defended Ukraine consistently over the past few years.

After Russia attempted to annex Crimea and illegally occupied it in 2014, Canada advocated that UNESCO monitor cultural heritage, right to education and freedom of expression in Crimea so that Russia would be accountable for its actions. Following February 24 of this year, we applied pressure for the Executive Board to adopt a decision condemning Russia's actions and calling for UNESCO to take action to support Ukraine.

Let me offer a few specifics with regard to UNESCO's subsequent actions following that decision.

With regard to freedom of expression and of the media, UNESCO rolled out an emergency response mechanism to protect journalists, media and communications infrastructure to bolster civilians' access to life-saving information and to tackle disinformation. The Canada-U.K. global media defence fund, which is based in UNESCO and was established in 2019, has supported the provision of emergency safety and communications equipment to journalists directly, relocated two journalist unions' offices to safe areas and provided conflict reporting safety training to journalists, many of whom were transformed overnight into war correspondents.

In the area of education, UNESCO is working to maintain continuity for Ukrainian students, both inside and outside of Ukraine. With 23 private and public partners, UNESCO is supplying computer equipment, assisting in the integration of online learning content and collaborating with UNHCR to develop digital learning recommendations for refugee-receiving countries. Canada is exploring how we can best further bolster our support for this effort.

In the area of cultural property, three UNESCO conventions are of direct relevance in the current context. The famed 1972 World Heritage Convention stipulates that state parties must not take part in any deliberate measures that would damage the cultural and natural heritage situated on the territory of other state parties. Both Ukraine and Russia are signatories to this treaty, but only Russia is a member of the World Heritage Committee and, in fact, is currently chairing it. Canada has been actively working through our delegation here and directly with our like-minded partners to address this untenable situation. However, the convention offers very limited options in that regard, and it requires a two-thirds majority vote of sitting committee members to change the situation.

Both Ukraine and Russia are also parties to the 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict, which requires parties to support cultural property in their own territory and that of other parties. Its first protocol prohibits the export of cultural property from occupied territories. This is a point relevant to the objects that Russia is alleged to have removed from Ukraine.

UNESCO also recognizes that, in times of armed conflict, measures to protect cultural heritage from trafficking need to be reinforced, and it does so under the UNESCO 1970 convention against illicit trafficking of cultural property. The organization is currently working in concert with other multilateral institutions to make it more difficult to loot and traffic Ukrainian objects. Additional funding is currently being sought to enable a quicker, more effective global response.

We know that we need to protect Ukrainian cultural heritage and that the need is immense. Canada's financial contribution of $4.8 million to UNESCO's heritage emergency fund, which was made in March 2022, gave a welcome boost to this effort. In doing so, we're enabling UNESCO and its partners, such as Blue Shield International, Interpol, ICOMOS, ICCROM and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, to help Ukrainian authorities through actions ranging from digitizing collections, providing protective packing materials, mobilizing experts to provide technical advice and assisting in the relocation of movable cultural property.

Importantly, UNESCO has also commissioned UNITAR to provide satellite monitoring and imagery to document and assess damage to heritage sites, museums and cultural institutions, and has to date verified harm to 123 properties. The organization is also conducting preliminary damage assessment regarding reports of objects being removed from museums in Melitopol and Mariupol by Russian authorities.

In short, UNESCO's emergency action measures on the ground are modest, but its reputation enables it to mobilize its partners and to take action, in its areas of expertise, as the Ukrainian government's main interlocutor. We hope this will be even more true at the end of the war, when rebuilding needs will be extremely significant.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Madam Ambassador.

We will now turn to the members. Each member will have five minutes. If they go over, 30 seconds before their time is up, I will be putting up this sign.

The first member is Mr. Zuberi.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the UNESCO representative for being here.

I found your testimony really interesting. Is Russia currently a signatory to any of the conventions that UNESCO oversees, in particular around cultural property and heritage?

[Natasha Power Cayer]

Yes, indeed. The Russian Federation is a very active member in the cultural field at UNESCO. As I mentioned, there are three main conventions that are pertinent in the context of the conflict itself, and those include the World Heritage Convention because within it states parties commit not to conduct any activity that harms natural or built heritage. There is also the 1970 convention on the illicit traffic in cultural property, which, again, Russia is a signatory to. Then, very importantly, because it's also linked to the Geneva conventions, is the 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Culture Property in the Event of Armed Conflict. That is the most relevant one, I think, in the current context. It has clear stipulations that restrict what signatories can do.

It has two protocols. Russia isn't a signatory to the second protocol, which has some elements that give some more specificity to what those responsibilities are, but nevertheless it is signatory to the convention itself and its first protocol, which covers all the bases, essentially, of controlling what they do.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you.

You mentioned that in Canada we have given $4.8 million to the UNESCO heritage cultural fund, if I recall correctly. In addition to that, what can Canada do to help preserve cultural heritage in this conflict that Ukraine is facing with Russia in this war?

[Natasha Power Cayer]

I have to say what we have done is nothing short of amazing considering the fact that the heritage emergency fund has, generally speaking, received contributions of a much smaller size. Our contribution has expanded the possibilities for them exponentially compared to what they had in hand at the start of the conflict, so we have done a lot in having provided that $4.8 million.

Canada as a country, and one with significant expertise in preservation, restoration, the maintenance of cultural collections, digitization and so on, is also providing expertise through these international networks to which many of our citizens who have that expertise belong. These citizens are then being connected with Ukraine via the organization that is bringing those experts together so that those connections can then produce results on the ground and help Ukrainians more quickly protect those elements physically. The elements that need physical protection are the ones that can't be moved. The experts are also dealing with the movable collections and either transferring them somewhere else or preparing the timelines for that potential transfer if it can't be done at the moment, since there are certain areas, of course, in which there is nowhere to go given the current situation.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thanks.

There has been a lot of conversation around genocide in Ukraine by Russia. Do you see a link between genocidal intent on the part of Russia and the destruction of Ukrainian cultural heritage sites?

[Natasha Power Cayer]

The genocide convention is really outside of my mandate, so I would be skating on thin ice to comment on that.

But, generally speaking, when assessments are made in a proceeding to determine whether or not genocide is, in fact, being perpetrated, there is always the question of intent. I think in certain cases perhaps—and this is my personal opinion—if there is clearly targeting of cultural property, that could be used as an element to try to establish that there is intent.

Again, I do not have responsibility for legal conventions in general. I'm a UNESCO ambassador. That is really something that's beyond the scope of my expertise, but the need to protect cultural heritage is clearly based in international humanitarian law, because destroying a society's cultural heritage is something that has been seen as destroying the will of and committing harm to that society.

I don't know if that answers your question.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

It helps enlighten it. Thank you.

[The Chair]

Now we'll turn to Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ambassador. Picking up where you left off with regard to the clear targeting of cultural property, is there evidence that Russia is deliberately targeting Ukrainian cultural and heritage sites?

[Natasha Power Cayer]

Again, this becomes a question of determining intent. What is clear is that there are many properties now. As I said, as of Monday morning, 123 sites had been documented as having been damaged or destroyed by Russian forces. The question as to why those sites were hit is something that will have to be determined through investigations.

It's really hard for me to.... I mean, I haven't even seen the imagery, so I can't comment on that precisely. In any event, it will require formal investigations in order to make determinations of that nature. In the fog of war, it's going to be difficult. Nevertheless, what is clear is that you have a country that's invaded another one. I think there's enough material currently being documented to prove that there are war crimes happening of different types. We'll see how those are adjudicated.

Again, this is not my area of expertise, but there is now at least a significant effort to document what is going on through people on the ground and, as I mentioned earlier, through the use of satellite imagery and taking constant photographs of what are the principal sites.

I have to say that the $4.8 million we gave to the heritage emergency fund has enabled a significant increase in the amount of satellite coverage that is being put over Ukraine. It has enabled six additional cities to be given coverage. That is very significant. They're very significant cultural centres. Again, it's not a negligible contribution that Canada is making in this regard. It is of the level that one would expect given our overall commitments to Ukraine and to helping them through this very, very difficult time.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you for that.

In fact, according to the numbers that I see, 127 sites, as of yesterday, have now been damaged.

Would you be able to speak about UN Security Council Resolution 2347 in regard to the protection of cultural heritage as a security imperative?

[Natasha Power Cayer]

I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to do that, because I haven't been dealing with the UN Security Council resolutions on this. Really, we deal with the programs that develop policies to help states protect their own heritage. That's what these cultural conventions are really focused on.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you for that. The resolution, just for the record, provides that the deliberate destruction of cultural property constitutes a war crime.

[Natasha Power Cayer]

Yes. That exists in other—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Certainly it does. It's just that you didn't touch on that specific resolution that had been unanimously adopted by the Security Council in 2017 and that I think is clearly applicable.

[Natasha Power Cayer]

I don't disagree with you, but at UNESCO we don't, generally speaking, deal with the UN Security Council resolutions.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

I understand that. That's fine.

[Natasha Power Cayer]

We just have to make sure that people don't contravene them.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

That's fine.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Mr. Cooper.

We now go to Mr. Trudel.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ambassador, thank you for joining us.

I must say that I really appreciate you speaking French. There is currently a lot of talk about protecting the two official languages of Canada, where French is under threat, and I see that our representative to UNESCO speaks French very well. Hearing you speak French moved me deeply, and I thank you very much for that.

I would like to put a general question to you.

Ukraine is currently at war and, last week, we heard from a representative of the International Criminal Court and discussed war crimes and human rights violations. We also heard from the honorary consul of Ukraine in Montreal.

This is a deadly conflict, and we don't know how many deaths have been caused by the conflict so far. The news is mostly focused on the protection of people and the evacuation of civilians from Mariupol, among other places.

When it comes to wars in places other than Ukraine, how is UNESCO protecting the cultural and religious heritage or any other form of heritage? Generally speaking, what does UNESCO do to protect heritage?

[Natasha Power Cayer]

Thank you for your great question.

I am also happy to hear you speak French.

I will briefly describe how we are doing things. I will also give you an example I experienced and saw with my own eyes.

UNESCO makes lists. The world heritage list, which people are familiar with, is a list of extraordinary sites with universal cultural value. The coordinates of those sites and sites that are on tentative lists—in other words, those that may be added in the near future—are all identified and codified. Their geographic coordinates are known, and UNESCO has them on hand.

The 1954 Hague Convention, the Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict, helps countries determine what sites should be protected in case of a conflict on their territory. Those coordinates are also all recorded at UNESCO. These are things we can produce easily.

I have an example to show you that actions taken by UNESCO have had an immediate impact.

An air campaign was carried out by NATO or by a coalition in Libya. A call was launched to countries, which were part of that campaign, so as to protect sites located in Libya. As the campaign's commander and his political assistant were accessible, Canada asked UNESCO for all the details related to the coordinates. We provided that directly to the command, which received the order to leave those sites alone.

Not all countries at war or in a conflict or all countries where military operations are taking place follow the rules of international law. However, some countries do follow them.

UNESCO can transmit that information if the participants in the war want to respect their obligations, in accordance with international law, to keep their hands off those objects. That is something we can do directly.

Here is another measure that can be taken. We can provide direct assistance by giving technical advice on, for example, the way museums can prepare a collection, mobilize it and transfer it. All museum directors have plans in mind in case of fire or earthquake, but they don't have a plan in case of war. However, a war can make them have to move their collections over long distances, among other things.

So UNESCO can provide technical advice. For instance, we translated into Ukrainian a guide that shows how to quickly prepare to protect and transport various types of collections. Some collections are archives and others are cultural objects, like those we see in traditional museums. That guide helps develop accurate plans and advises on how to do that within a short time frame. That helps avoid losses and ensure that everything is recorded and prepared properly when that kind of action has to be taken.

Protection equipment is also supplied.