Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 25th, 2022

[Jacqueline O'Neill]

I would like for more Canadian NGOs to work in Afghanistan.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Nevertheless, do you agree that some NGOs are not working in Afghanistan right now because they are afraid of being prosecuted under the Canadian Criminal Code?

[Jacqueline O'Neill]

Yes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

I’d like to talk with Ms. Deif, from Human Rights Watch Canada.

I will ask you the same question: are you aware of the fact that Canadian NGOs can’t do their work for fear of being prosecuted under the Canadian Criminal Code?

[Farida Deif]

Yes, that's been an issue that we've been concerned about, as well, at Human Rights Watch.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

What is the current impact on women in Afghanistan of NGOs being unable to do their work?

[Farida Deif]

I think for civil society organizations in Afghanistan, women's NGOs in Afghanistan, the situation is incredibly bleak, so it's really important for states to remove any types of additional obstacles that they may face.

[Sanam Naraghi-Anderlini]

May I add to that?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, of course.

[Sanam Naraghi-Anderlini]

At ICAN, because of the funding that we receive from different countries and from private sources, we have been able to get money into the country since September 2021. We were getting money in before, including Canadian support, but we've been getting money in since September 2021. It really would make a difference to have consistency. For example, we can't use Canadian grants to pay salaries to our colleagues who are on the ground. These kinds of things make a tremendous difference.

In terms of the rapid response issues, we do rapid response. We've been helping people get out. What we find across countries is that the foreign ministry that knows us will take referrals from us, but it's immigration that drops the ball across many countries. The only country that has been effective in doing the support with resettlement in a consistent way for women is Germany right now. This is very important.

Going back to the question of networks, this is exactly why we have the networks that we do, because at ICAN we can do things. We have access. We can help our partners in many different ways, and we are not politically bound by the limits that a UN agency might have. We have direct access to bilateral donors and to the partners, and we don't have the bureaucracy. We're able to get small amounts of money in to people and assist in terms of protection and evacuation, but also protection on the ground. We have a big protection guidance framework that we'd be happy to share with you that's very detailed in terms of the kinds of support that governments can provide.

Thank you.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, we would definitely like to see that. If you could provide that to the committee, it would be very interesting for everyone.

Let me turn back to you, Ms. Deif, from Human Rights Watch Canada.

I receive a lot of calls from various organizations which represent, among other things, religious minorities in Iran, Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. These people tell me about the situation of women in those countries, such as the Hazara in Afghanistan. That is what we are here for, to examine the situation of women in those three countries.

Can you elaborate on what happens to women from religious minorities in those countries?

[Farida Deif]

The situation of the Hazara minority is something that is very concerning to Human Rights Watch. We've documented a number of abuses. As you've seen in September, there was a suicide attack on ethnic Hazara students in Kabul that sparked protests by women and girls across the province. The attack took place as female students sat for a university examination. It claimed the lives of 53 students, most of them girls and young women, and injured about 110.

This is something that adds to the overall very grim picture that we're seeing in Afghanistan in terms of the specific targeting and impact of Taliban rule on ethnic minorities and women, in particular, within them.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Naraghi-Anderlini, can you enlighten us on some of the perceptions we have here, in Canada. Watching what is happening in Iran, it seems that Iranian men are supporting the Iranian women. In Afghanistan, on the other hand, it seems that men don't dare speak up for fear of being sent to prison. In Saudi Arabia, men seem to be quite comfortable with what is happening right now and do not really seem to want to support the women.

These are our perceptions. Are they correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

You have 30 seconds to reply.

[Sanam Naraghi-Anderlini]

First of all, men are supporting women in Iran. It's not the first women-led revolution in the world, but it is the first revolution where the clarion call for women's rights is unifying everybody. It has taken 43 years—three generations—of women's resistance to get men to stand alongside them.

This is why it's so important. This is why, in many ways, women in the region are watching and are very supportive, but governments in the region are very wary of what's happening in Iran as well. This is because the dynamics of having a women's rights call and uprising are threatening to others, including probably Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

Thank you.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

We'll continue for six minutes with Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses. My goodness, what an interesting panel, as everyone has mentioned, on the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women.

Ms. Naraghi-Anderlini, I know the other two witnesses very well and consider them leaders in this work, and your testimony has been such that I'm certainly adding you to that list of powerhouse women who are fighting for women's rights around the world. I thank you all very much for doing that.

I want to follow up a little bit, very briefly, on what my colleague from the Bloc brought up. We do look at the fact that Canada cannot work in Afghanistan the way that we should because we don't have that humanitarian carve-out. There are implications on that. One of my big worries is that if we are not careful, if we are not thoughtful, and I guess looking down the road with regard to Iran.... Is there the potential that if we were to, for example, declare the IRGC a terrorist organization, that would give us the same implications in Iran that groups would not be able to work with civil society in Iran? That would limit what Canada can do because we don't have that humanitarian carve-out in our Criminal Code.

Mr. Naraghi-Anderlini, could I ask you?

[Sanam Naraghi-Anderlini]

Thank you.

The sanctions in Iran are so profound right now, and the crackdown from the state systematically, that the idea of civil society organizations per se is itself very different. That said, absolutely, carve-outs for humanitarian, civic action, etc., should be there. Carve-outs for ordinary people to send stipends to their family members should be there.

It is almost impossible to try to get resources to ordinary people, including, by the way, to Afghans who are passing through, because what we're seeing is that Afghans, for example, in our network, get verified by Germany, but they need to come to Iran or Pakistan to get their visas at the embassies there. It's really important to have the means and the measures for people to be able to pass through, and the embassy presence and so forth is also very critical for other reasons.

Humanitarian carve-outs are absolutely critical. We can't get money for charities for kids with cancer or orphans, things like that, each time. It's meant to be possible, but it's been very hard.

Thank you.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

Of course, the goal of all governments should be to be punitive towards the terrorists and the murderers who are in the leadership of the IRGC and not to hurt regular Iranian citizens. I think we've seen in the past that the Canadian community has not done a good job of that. We have to be very cautious in how we go forward with that.

Thank you for that.

Ambassador O'Neill, of course it's always lovely to see you. Thank you so much for bringing your expertise here today.

You spoke a little bit about the online threats and what that means to women around the world. Could you expand on what Canada could do, and how Canada could work with other countries, work with our allies to limit the impacts of those online threats against women rights defenders?

[Jacqueline O'Neill]

Sure, thanks so much.

There are a few different things.

One, we can learn from other countries on how they are approaching this as it relates to programming. I mentioned that we've included now budget lines for digital security for women peacebuilders we're supporting. I think we can continue to share and learn from other countries on how they're doing that better.

We have been working within different forums. For example, the Organization of American States now has a cybersecurity program, and Canada funded a free online course on cybersecurity and gender, so we're working within various multilateral institutions to try to raise the fact and keep the attention and focus on women. We have a women and cyber fellowship, a few different things.

We also just joined—and I think this is an area for increased attention, including hopefully at a parliamentary level as well—something called the global partnership for action on gender-based online abuse and harassment. That's recognition that we have to work internationally to identify standards and good practices.

We also have a massive dearth of research in this area about what actually works, what works vis-à-vis IT companies, tech companies and what role they have to play, what role legislation has to play, and then specifically what governments can do.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you.

I'll just finish with you, Ms. Deif, if I could.

I'm constantly aware that we pick and choose human rights in this country and in this world. We choose which countries to prioritize. It's often based on our trade relationships. It's often based on our geopolitical location.

How do we stop doing that? How do we work with the Canadian government, with our allies, with other governments to ensure that human rights are protected regardless of where they're happening? We should have been calling for the protection of women's rights in Iran before what's happening in Iran started occurring. We should have been doing that beforehand, and we weren't. What can we do to make sure that happens going forward?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sameer Zuberi]

You have a minute.

[Farida Deif]

Thank you for that question.

I know Ambassador O'Neill mentioned the “Voices at Risk” guidelines, which are meant to be implemented by Canadian missions all over the world. They have very clear recommendations around ambassadors requesting prison visits with human rights defenders and women's rights defenders who have been detained, asking the government to observe trials of human rights defenders, etc. Even when countries are unlikely to grant a Canadian ambassador that request, we should be making that request in order to signal our interest in human rights in the cases of specific human rights defenders.

What's missing here really is a sort of review of how actively our ambassadors are using those “Voices at Risk” guidelines. How actively are they using that specifically in countries with very strong bilateral trade relationships? I think of Egypt. I think of Israel. When was the last time these ambassadors requested to meet with a detained human rights defender, or to observe a trial? There is really a question here of implementation that's the problem.

Then, as mentioned earlier—