Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Feb. 28th, 2022

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for coming here and giving us kind of the horror show of the world.

I want to touch on something you were talking about, Mr. Turkel, and that's the forced labour in Southeast Asia, in China. How does Canada tie into that? Are you familiar with our supply chain reporting bills that we've been pushing here in our Parliament? What is the United States doing in terms of trying to combat this forced labour that happens in other parts of the world?

[Nury Turkel]

Thank you very much for that important question. Forced labour has been one of the most effective tools the Chinese government has used in its repressive policies with respect to Uighurs. We're now hearing disturbing news that Tibetans have also been subject to forced labour practices.

In the last 20 years, China has effectively polluted the global supply chain with tainted consumer products, in electronics and now solar panels. More than 80 global brands, according to various reports, have been tainted by the ongoing forced labour practices.

Last December President Biden enacted a substantive bill, which becomes law in the enforcement posture, the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act. It presumptively treats everything coming from China to the United States as tainted product unless it is proven by the importers and manufacturer that these are not tainted or are not being made by modern-day slaves.

This issue has to be dealt with globally. The same thing is true in Europe, the same thing is true in Canada and the same thing is true in Australia. This is a global problem. Even the United States, with some of the toughest and most robust legal tools and enforcement mechanisms, cannot deal with this alone. We also need Canada's help in pressuring global businesses, in addition to putting in place whatever administrative and legislative tools are available, and persuading the businesses that there is no place for slavery in the modern era.

We need to use our consumers. We need to use our tools; there are tool boxes. We also need to use our pressure on businesses to force them to do the right thing. The business community has been complicit in the ongoing forced labour practices in China. It requires a Canadian, European and American joint collaborative approach, a strategic approach, to tackle it.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Mr. Turkel, you mentioned solar panels. Why in particular did you mention solar panels?

[Nury Turkel]

I mentioned solar panels because Uighur forced labour is being used in the polysilicon part of the solar panel industry. The green revolution and the green industry are important. The environment and the earth are in peril, and so are the Uighurs. We cannot compete with China, whether it be Canada or the United States, in this important industry, because we don't use forced labour. We don't use slavery; China does.

Therefore, it's very important that Canada, in tandem with the United States and other countries, imposes strict measures to stop this practice, as well as China's efforts to confuse people who care about green technology that it's okay to put these panels on roofs, knowing that they've been made by fellow human beings who have been enslaved.

The solar panel industry is one of the critical areas that has reportedly been using Uighur forced labour.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Mr. England, would you have any comments on forced labour around the world? Have you dealt with that with your organization?

[Jeremy England]

As you know, we're not a specialist human rights organization, so it's not our principal focus, but we would come across people if they were caught up in conflict, displaced, injured, imprisoned, or separated from their family members. However, we would not have a specific focus on dealing with the issue of forced labour.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Ms. Byrnes?

[Denise Byrnes]

I support what my colleague, Mr. Turkel, has said. We are seeing a lot of forced labour of children in artisanal mining in West and Central Africa, and it's going up. There are many places. If I take Burkina Faso, Canada has the highest number of active mining companies in Burkina Faso, so we do have a role we can play. It's a very dangerous area. Just last week, there was an explosion in an artisanal mine in Burkina Faso that killed almost 60 people, including women and children.

That's an area that isn't in the media so much. We hear a lot about some other areas like clothing and chocolate, but children are very present in artisanal mining,.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

What do you mean by artisanal mining?

[Denise Byrnes]

These are like open pit mines, going for gold. It's not industrial mining. Artisanal is not industrial, so people are in open pits and they don't have any protection. It's a very challenging context and human rights abuses are really quite high.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Would this be state sanctioned mining? Are foreign players coming in?

[Denise Byrnes]

Both. The state is quite aware of it, but there are also foreign players involved in artisanal mining.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

One of the challenges we have, as we look around the world is human rights abuses. You brought up Yemen, and now we see Ukraine.

If you could give us one recommendation, one area where Canada could really make a difference in the whole scope of the work you do, Ms. Byrnes, what would it be?

[Denise Byrnes]

That's a challenging question.

I believe there are two. One was mentioned by Jeremy England, namely the whole question of the role Canada plays in pushing peace processes. That's really important, because if we can stop these conflicts, we're going to stop a lot of the abuse. The second one is to have some really robust laws here in Canada on what we do in the world, on what our companies are doing and what our organizations are doing in the world, making sure that we're not contributing to these human rights violations but instead serving as an example. That would also give us more voice and credibility when we speak.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Viersen.

We now go to Monsieur Trudel, for seven minutes.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our three panellists for joining us today. Their presentations were very insightful.

One deeply troubling issue that hasn't been addressed and that interests me is the situation in Haiti.

The figures for poverty in Haiti are very serious. We're hearing about armed groups that have taken over the country and that are committing acts of violence. Some groups speak of a failed state or a non‑state. There's currently no state in Haiti.

I imagine that Oxfam and the Red Cross are in Haiti.

Ms. Byrnes, could you provide some insight into the situation on the ground in Haiti?

[Denise Byrnes]

I'll say two things.

First, despite everything, people are still working to develop their communities. We're working on major projects with women in the coffee industry to develop climate‑resilient agriculture. People still want to develop their communities and they're working hard to do so.

Second, insecurity is a major issue, especially for Haitian people. Children of middle‑class Haitians are regularly kidnapped.

For organizations such as ours, travel is becoming very complicated, even for our local employees. Security is a major issue and it has become much worse in the past two years. The insecurity issue, which affects everyone, is really our main concern.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. England, are you hearing reports of the situation on the ground?

[Jeremy England]

Thank you for the question.

I can confirm everything that Ms. Byrnes said. The situation is very troubling. The ICRC reopened its office six months ago because of this increase in violence, which is quite intense and which continues to significantly affect people.

Above all, there's the accessibility issue, which Ms. Byrnes just brought up. There are a number of issues, including how humanitarian organizations can work in places where people are affected and how doctors and medical personnel can work safely. There's a constant concern that ambulances will be attacked.

We're there specifically to try to negotiate with the people who carry weapons and who plan to commit acts of violence. Our goal is to improve access to the various services needed in parts of Port‑au‑Prince. It's very complicated. Right now, many people are suffering mainly because of the lack of access to health care services, among other things.

It should be noted that there are very few resources. There's very little [Technical difficulty—Editor] attention as well. This becomes clear when we see all the other global crises that receive more attention.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

How can we address this lack of resources?

How can Canada and western countries take action to ensure security and reduce food insecurity in Haiti?

I know that this is a broad issue. Haiti has been struggling with this issue for 50 years. However, in practical terms, could we take one or two measures quickly to help the country?

Ms. Byrnes, do you have any thoughts on this?

[Denise Byrnes]

Canada is one of the main partners in Haiti in terms of humanitarian and development assistance. It's a key player and it has a voice with the Haitian government. The current situation of the Haitian government is certainly complicated. However, Canada is a key player when it comes to development assistance funding.

Unfortunately, many people depend on this assistance. Even local structures depend on it.

For example, during the most recent earthquake, Canada provided expertise to the department of security's local committee to help assess the situation in remote areas because the government was unable to do so.

Canada can use its diplomatic power to try to find solutions with Haiti.

That said, I must admit that the situation is very complicated.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. England, would you like to add anything?

[Jeremy England]

I just want to add that the security situation has been a major issue for a long time. For several decades, a number of countries have been taking initiatives to resolve the situation on the ground, but to no avail. It's very complicated. I agree with Ms. Byrnes that we must keep supporting the basic system that assists people.

All types of partnerships can be established with government institutions, particularly when it comes to security and elections. Since we represent a humanitarian organization, we can't comment on these issues. However, I believe that we must keep focusing on the situation and establish a partnership and a minimum level of trust with the authorities on the ground. I think that Canada is in a good position to exercise that type of influence.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I now want to ask a more general question.

As we've seen with the conflict in Ukraine, when all the nations of the world impose economic sanctions on a state, it greatly affects the people. Right now, we're talking a great deal about economic sanctions on Russia, but there are still people living there. One state has engaged in a war against another state, but the people will probably suffer as a result of the economic sanctions. This is happening everywhere. In Afghanistan, we don't like the regime either. Sanctions are being imposed, but we must still help the people.

Mr. England, I know that this is a broad issue. How do we strike a balance between doing the right thing and helping people while addressing potential issues with democracy?