Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number three of the House of Commons Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the subcommittee is meeting to study the human rights situation in Sudan.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Members may attend in person or remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we continue, I would ask all in-person participants to consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio and feedback incidents and to protect the health and safety of all participants, including the interpreters. You will also notice a QR code on the card, which links to a short awareness video.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation—floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

If members in the room wish to speak, they must raise their hand. Members participating on Zoom must use the “raise hand” function.

The subcommittee clerk and I will maintain the speaking order as best we can. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

I would now like to welcome our guests.

We have France‑Isabelle Langlois, executive director of Amnistie internationale Canada francophone, by video conference. Welcome, France‑Isabelle Langlois.

From Doctors Without Borders, we have Michael Lawson, humanitarian representative to Canada. Welcome, Michael Lawson.

From the Macdonald-Laurier Institute, we have Casey Babb, director of the promised land program and strategic advisor to Doctors Against Racism and Antisemitism. Welcome, Casey Babb.

As an individual, we have Khalid Medani, associate professor of political science and chair of the African studies program at McGill University. Welcome, Khalid Medani.

Also as an individual, we have Jon Unruh, professor and director of the department of geography, East Africa field studies semester, at McGill University. Welcome, Jon Unruh.

Each witness will have five minutes for their remarks. I would ask that everyone try to respect that time limit.

We'll start with France‑Isabelle Langlois of Amnistie internationale Canada francophone.

Ms. Langlois, you have the floor.

[France-Isabelle Langlois, Executive Director, Amnistie internationale Canada francophone]

Good afternoon, hon. members.

Thank you for inviting me to appear before the committee.

Since Amnesty International last appeared before this committee on October 1, 2024, the situation in Sudan has not improved. It has actually deteriorated. The people of Sudan feel forgotten in the spiral of violence that has engulfed the country, where the parties to the conflict are sowing death and destruction, with no regard for human rights or international humanitarian law.

Since April 2023, the conflict in Sudan between the Rapid Support Forces, or RSF, and the Sudanese Armed Forces, or SAF, has claimed tens of thousands of lives and displaced more than 12 million people, making it the world's largest humanitarian crisis.

Given the scale of the fighting and the organization of both sides, the situation can be considered a non-international armed conflict under the Geneva Conventions. It is therefore subject to international humanitarian law, which aims to protect civilian populations and other non-combatants in armed conflicts. Amnesty International considers both the RSF and the SAF to be state forces. Various non-state armed groups and militias are also involved.

Amnesty International investigated and established that all parties to the conflict have committed serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law. Some of the violence committed constitutes war crimes and even crimes against humanity.

On October 26, 2025, the RSF claimed to have conquered several areas of El Fasher, the last major city in Darfur controlled by the SAF. El Fasher had a population of over 1.5 million, including hundreds of thousands of internally displaced persons. It is estimated that approximately 260,000 civilians were trapped in the city as the October 26 attacks approached.

The reports coming out of El Fasher are appalling. People were killed in their homes or while desperately searching for food, water and medicine. They were caught in the crossfire as they fled and were shot in targeted attacks. Women and girls, some as young as 12, were raped and subjected to other forms of sexual violence by belligerents on both sides.

The RSF has a long history of committing massive violations, including targeted attacks against non-Arab communities and massacres reminiscent of those that took place in Darfur two decades ago.

There is no safe place. With every passing minute, countless lives are being destroyed. Canada must act now and call on the UN Security Council to extend the existing arms embargo on Darfur to the entire country and ensure its full implementation. As a reminder, in July 2024, Amnesty published a report documenting a steady influx of arms into the country, fuelling the conflict and an unprecedented humanitarian crisis.

Amnesty International is therefore calling on Canada to demand that the UN Security Council extend the arms embargo that applies to Darfur to the entire country.

It is also calling on Canada to ask the Security Council to strengthen its monitoring and verification mechanisms in order to effectively monitor and prevent international transfers and the illicit diversion of arms to the country.

Amnesty International is also calling on the Canadian government to support the mandate of the Human Rights Council's independent international fact-finding mission, which was recently renewed for one year.

It is calling on Canada to ask the UN Security Council to extend the mandate of the International Criminal Court, the ICC, to cover not only Darfur but the entire Sudanese territory so that it can bring justice to all victims.

Amnesty International is calling on the Canadian government to urgently enforce all outstanding arrest warrants related to the situation in Darfur, including against former Sudanese president Omar Al Bashir, and to strengthen political and financial support for the ICC so it can investigate violations committed in Darfur and elsewhere in Sudan.

Lastly, it is calling on the government to demonstrate its commitment to and support for the victims of Darfur and all situations under investigation by taking concrete action to defend the ICC against attacks by the United States and other states.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Langlois.

Mr. Lawson, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Michael Lawson, Humanitarian Representative to Canada, Doctors Without Borders]

Thank you and good afternoon to you, Mr. Chair, and to all the members of this committee. Thank you for having me here today.

I represent Doctors without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières, MSF, an international aid organization that provides medical care to people affected by armed conflict and humanitarian emergencies around the world. One of the worst of those emergencies right now is taking place in Sudan, where we operate in some of the areas worst hit by a brutal war characterized by atrocities against civilians and where many people cannot access the humanitarian assistance they urgently need.

I apologize in advance that my colleague, Michel-Olivier Lacharité, head of MSF's emergency operations for Sudan, was unable to join us by video link today as planned. I will present some of the information he was planning to share.

In recent days, we've seen the awful situation in Sudan take a further turn for the worse. El Fasher, the capital of North Darfur in Sudan, which was already facing an unprecedented humanitarian crisis after more than 500 days of siege, saw its situation deteriorate even more after the city was taken over by the Rapid Support Forces, the RSF, on the weekend of October 26.

MSF was operational in El Fasher until last year when attacks against our health activities forced us to evacuate. In April, we were again forced to evacuate from the nearby Zamzam camp for displaced civilians after it, too, was attacked. We are now based in the town of Tawila, 60 kilometres away from El Fasher, where we run a hospital with 200 beds and 500 staff.

We have been receiving there as patients many of the people who have managed to flee El Fasher, including over the past few days, who have been reporting to us what they have been witnessing directly. El Fasher is now the scene of mass atrocities, and although the pattern of the violence being committed is not new, it is rapidly intensifying and radicalizing. Civilians continue to be directly targeted. Children are not spared. Elderly people are not spared. Women are not spared. Non-Arab populations continue to be directly targeted. Civilian and medical infrastructure is also being targeted. Escaping from El Fasher is extremely difficult. Those attempting to flee are victims of extortion who must pay for their survival and who risk kidnapping, assault or worse.

At our hospital in Tawila, MSF has received more than 500 victims of gunshot wounds in the past week alone. We have received wounded people who had been left for dead and many cases of torture and bodily violence, approximately 20 per day. We also continue to see high numbers of cases of sexual violence, which has been a major characteristic of this war. Even before the recent developments in El Fasher, we had received 200 cases of sexual violence at our hospital in Tawila in September alone. These are not sporadic or isolated cases, but are consistent with the high and constant level of violence against civilians that we have observed for months. This has not changed over the past week, but has simply intensified. We estimate that there have been thousands of direct deaths in El Fasher and its outskirts in recent months, probably even more if one includes indirect deaths caused by the absence of care and those caused by famine.

The malnutrition situation is extremely severe. In several internally displaced person sites in the El Fasher area, nutritional assessments carried out in mid-March showed 38% global acute malnutrition among children under the age of five, of which 11% were severe acute malnutrition. That was more than seven months ago, after which the siege of El Fasher only intensified.

This extreme vulnerability is now further reinforced by increased direct violence. The risk of massive mortality remains extremely high. In Tawila, our teams receive not only children but also adult women and men whose levels of malnutrition are alarming. On October 27 in Tawila, all 70 of the children under the age of five received at our facilities were suffering from acute malnutrition. On October 28, 20% of adult men coming from El Fasher were also suffering from severe acute malnutrition.

What we are seeing right now in North Darfur following the takeover of El Fasher is not an anomaly. It is a scaled-up continuation of a system of targeted destruction of civilians as the dominant operational model of the RSF.

I want to take this moment to remind the members of this committee that civilians in conflict are meant to be protected under international humanitarian law, which forbids warring parties from deliberately targeting civilians or from attacking aid workers or preventing access to essentials such as food, water and medical care. I would also like to point out that we, as MSF, have already been calling on Canada to do more to stand up for international humanitarian law in conflict zones, most recently through a petition signed by tens of thousands of Canadians and delivered last month to the Prime Minister, asking his government to hold violators of IHL accountable.

Now more than ever, as we watch civilians—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Can you wind up, please? We are almost at time.

[Michael Lawson]

—come under attack in Darfur, it is necessary for Canada to uphold international humanitarian law. Now more than ever, violators and those who support them must be held to account and now more than ever, especially today on the eve of this government's new federal budget, it is necessary for Canada to prioritize life-saving international aid and humanitarian assistance for places like Sudan and for people affected by conflict, displacement, starvation and disease.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Lawson.

Now I invite Mr. Casey Babb, please. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Casey Babb, Director of the Promised Land Program and Strategic Adviser to Doctors Against Racism and Antisemitism, Macdonald-Laurier Institute]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and esteemed members of the committee, for inviting me to speak about the situation in Sudan. I'm honoured to be here today in my capacity as a director with the Macdonald-Laurier Institute and as an adviser to both Doctors Against Racism and Antisemitism and Secure Canada.

Right now, as we gather here today, men, women and children throughout Sudan are wondering if they'll make it, if they can do it again, if they can survive another night, night 933 of what should be described as a genocide, Sudan's second in 20 years.

Indeed, while there are numerous conflict zones around the world that warrant attention and action right now, the situation in Sudan is the world's biggest humanitarian crisis, a civil war that has forced 12 million people from their homes, has led to widespread famine and suffering and has killed as many as 400,000 people by some estimates.

Scenes circulating online show women shielding their children while they're taunted before being killed, mothers hanging from trees with their infants, child soldiers murdering adults, and streets and fields filled with dozens of murdered people while their killers gleefully celebrate on camera. Barbaric sexual violence is widespread, with militants using it not only as a form of terror but also as a reward, a type of compensation.

Sudan right now is hell on earth.

Sadly, many activists continue to focus on theatrics. NGOs seem to spend every waking minute focusing on other areas, and humanitarian organizations are often too busy using their status to launch political campaigns as opposed to carrying out the work they're expected to do. All the while, the people of Sudan are being fed into the maw of war.

Where are the protests, the boycotts, the campus takeovers, the red carpet pins, the ice cream flavours, the lawn signs and the bumper stickers? The silence has been profoundly disturbing. So many people have been killed that one report recently stated, “The pools of blood are so thick, the piles of bodies so exposed, that the ethnic purge...is visible from space.”

They mean that quite literally. Caught between the Muslim Brotherhood-aligned and -supported Sudanese Armed Forces and the Arab supremacist Rapid Support Forces—an outgrowth of the Janjaweed, which carried out similar heinous crimes between 2003 and 2005—the people of Sudan, particularly Black, non-Arab groups, are suffering immensely.

In addition to the unfathomable human toll of this war, the geopolitical ramifications are significant. In collaboration with the Muslim Brotherhood—which Canada should quickly move to designate as a terrorist organization—and a loyal following of Islamists, Iran is using this conflict to re-establish a presence in the region and rebuild their network of terror, which has been decimated since October 7.

If they have it their way, Sudan could once again become a hub of Islamic terrorism, a base for groups like Hamas and Hezbollah, as well as the Houthis, to re-establish their footing. Make no mistake: Iran does not care about the human suffering in Sudan any more than they care about the suffering in Gaza.

This isn't just a situation that state actors are looking to exploit. Non-state actors such as ISIS have already called for jihad in Sudan, denouncing both the SAF and RSF as enemies of Islam.

All of this could be hugely important for Canada and Canadians. Going forward, it is imperative that Canada, along with our allies, pursues substantive and concrete measures that can immediately alleviate the suffering and devastation in Sudan. That, of course, must be the primary focus: ending the suffering and holding those responsible to account.

I'll end there. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Mr. Babb, that was good timing.

Now I would like to invite Professor Khalid Medani.

Welcome, Professor Medani. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Khalid Medani, Associate Professor of Political Science and Chair of the African Studies Program, McGill University, As an Individual]

Thank you very much. It is a great honour to be here. I came from Montreal.

I want to thank the chair. It's a real privilege.

I want to thank all of you who have shown concern for Sudan.

Today I'm speaking to you in my capacity not only as someone of Sudanese origin but also, most importantly, as an academic and researcher who has spent over 30 years researching, writing and teaching about the war in Sudan and the many wars in the country, and in Africa more generally. I have worked in policy as a researcher at the Brookings Institution and at the Woodrow Wilson school for scholars. I was also a homeland security fellow at Stanford University.

I'm giving you this résumé because I'm going to speak a little bit about the academic part of the war but also policy recommendations.

First, I want to briefly explain why the war matters to Canada and the world. Second, I want to emphasize the depth of the humanitarian crisis, because I know that some of my colleagues from Sudan were not able to be here. Third and finally, if I can do it quickly enough, I want to point to the nature of the war before outlining some policy recommendations that I believe would gain and generate bipartisan support in this body.

In terms of why the war in Sudan should matter, given the limited coverage, it's really important to understand that not only did it interrupt one of the most important and powerful experiments in the transition to democracy, which began in December 2018, but when the war began on April 15, 2023, it went on to threaten the entire region. We noted very early in the war that this would happen.

As many of you know but it's worth repeating, Sudan borders seven different countries. It's a crucial country with respect to the Sahel region. It's a crucial country with respect to the very turbulent politics of the Red Sea region. That becomes a really important aspect of why Canada, and of course now the United States and its allies, are all of a sudden finally focusing on Sudan. It's for these reasons.

Another very important reason, of course, is the humanitarian crisis itself. There is absolutely no question that Sudan is absolutely the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. It has been called a “failure of humanity”. Food insecurity and famine are affecting 60% of the population.

As a Sudanese, I can turn to you and say that no Sudanese family has not been affected. No home has not been destroyed. Obviously, the role of the war in Darfur in El Fasher is extremely important as well, but I was told by my colleagues in Sudan and elsewhere to emphasize what the war is about.

It's not a usual war. It's not a usual civil war. It's a war against the civilian population. That is very different from the kind of war we know from other contexts in Africa and elsewhere. It is really worth repeating that both sides, not only the Rapid Support Forces militia but also the Sudanese Armed Forces, have been executing, have been terrorizing and have been displacing 13 million people, now 14 million people, in just less than three years. That becomes a really important aspect of the humanitarian toll. El Fasher is so devastated not only because of the Rapid Support Forces but also from the drones that the Sudanese Armed Forces utilize. It's also, of course, because of the groups allied with the Sudanese Armed Forces in Darfur that represent a particular ethnic group, the Zaghawa.

Very quickly, rather than me explaining to you why Darfur and Sudan and El Fasher should matter, I contacted a friend of mine from Darfur and told him I was coming here. I asked him what he thought the Canadian government should do. His response was brief but crucial. Rather than have me pontificate in an academic sense, let me just read you what he said.

He said, “Hello Prof. Khalid. Good to hear from you. You know more than I do about the conflict. But [I] will jot down my/our Darfuri community thoughts about what is happening and the priorities. Canada is capable in the diploma[tic] efforts, if they can neutralize the [United Arab Emirates], this can stop the flow of arms, communication equipment, [logistics].” In addition to that, he said, Canada must play a role in the “access to unfettered humanitarian aid” and there must be a “call for [a] lasting ceasefire”. He said that civilian protection is a priority, “both in IDP camps and to those who fled to neighbouring countries like Chad”. As well, “lack of accountability”—here is another priority—“is the reason for the recurrence of violence specifically in Darfur”.

I just want to note for you that in the past 18 months, he lost 40 members of his immediate family. He reminds us that “since the genocide in [the] early 2000s, all perpetrators are still at large, committing the same crimes. Hold [accountable] both RSF for their crime and [the Sudanese Armed Forces] for their complicity 'the wishful blindness' since they [knew] this day [was] coming, yet [did] nothing” about it, and, in fact, left.

I know I don't have too much time, but I want to quickly mention something that I think is important for Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Please do it quickly.

[Khalid Medani]

Yes, I understand.

What can Canada do? How can Canada implement this?

First of all, Canada should very quickly involve itself in the humanitarian cause in Sudan for strategic reasons in addition to humanitarian reasons. Sudanese Canadians have been asking for this for a long time. The situation is unlikely to get better, and that becomes a very crucial issue. This is the reason for my estimation that the U.S. has decided to move forward with the Quad.

Canada can do two things. One is to push for a humanitarian corridor as soon as possible to open up a route for aid from Chad and other routes. The second is to appoint a special envoy to Sudan who not only goes to the Arab capitals but, crucially—and I want to emphasize this here—goes to the IGAD-African Union countries that so far have not been central to the negotiations in the Quad.

The envoy is something that the AU and IGAD are calling for. Here I'm once again calling for a Sudan envoy, on the part of the Canadian government, to highlight the issue of conflict gold. This is extremely important. We can go into details, but Canada can play a very important role—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

I'm sorry, Dr. Medani. I gave you two seconds, not—

[Khalid Medani]

Okay. You gave me a lot. Let me conclude here.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Now I invite Professor John Unruh to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Jon Unruh, Professor and Director, Department of Geography, McGill University East Africa Field Studies Semester, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In 2009, I was part of the United Nations mission to Darfur, which gave us access to the leadership of the various sects that were involved in that conflict. The aim was to assess their willingness and capacity to engage in negotiations. We had access to a perspective that was broader and structural.

Since then, I've worked with four academics from Sudan to examine the role of transitional justice in the Darfur conflict. There are strong links, as Professor Medani mentioned, between the earlier conflict and the current one. The overall objective is the same. Territorial control previously was about control of grazing rights. Currently, it's about economic control, including gold and economic corridors. They're going about that control in the same way—large-scale ethnic cleansing. We know what that looks like. Our colleagues have described how horrific that is.

The overall point about the earlier conflict and the current one is that there is a large constituency behind the current conflict, as there was earlier on, meaning a population that supports and drives and gains from the military advances of the RSF in Darfur.

That means that trying to resolve the Darfur conflict, trying to resolve the Sudanese conflict, will leave the Darfur underlying set of issues still going on. Those sorts of issues are long-term. They're deeply ingrained and are not solvable by Canada or the international community in the near or medium term.

The attention, instead, needs to focus on the current ethnic cleansing that results in what the ICC does term as genocide in Darfur. The current risk to the current situation is that international attention is diverted elsewhere—Ukraine, Syria, Gaza—so neglect prevails in Darfur and Sudan.

Severe human rights violations continue to worsen. There are massacres. Famine is a heavy prospect. Agriculture is of course not under way in Darfur, and unfortunately neither is humanitarian food aid. We have a potential spread of the conflict internationally. The Zaghawa tribe is present both in western Darfur and in eastern Chad, with linkages up into the Chadian military and government.

The U.A.E. funds the RSF in a large respect, primarily due to the flow of what we call conflict gold coming out of northern Darfur through the RSF, landing in the U.A.E. This is like conflict diamonds. It's used to fuel the war. That's a primary linkage there.

In 2019, 1,000 RSF forces were present in Libya. They were also present in Yemen and in another war. They are used internationally already as a set of combatants. The proxy war possibilities are quite large coming out of this conflict if it goes unattended.

On ethnic connections, there's large-scale poverty and unhappiness among Arab tribes in Chad, which leads to the recruitment of young Chadian individuals into the RSF. Proximity of jihadist forces elsewhere in the Sahel also means that they look for areas of instability, and Darfur is certainly that.

You're looking at the ultimate balkanization of Sudan, where, like in Libya and Somalia, you have de facto on the ground different governments in different parts of the country—the RSF in the west and SAF in the east.

Recommendations include robust and ongoing international direct threats by Canada and by the international community to the perpetrators of the ethnic cleansing in Darfur now. It's actually fairly straightforward to find out who exactly they are—not just the top commanders but the lower-level combatants as well.

When we were in Darfur in 2009-10, we were amazed at how quickly the narrative on the ground changed when former president al-Bashir was indicted by the ICC. That narrative changed from thinking you were going to be able to keep the lands that you had conquered through ethnic cleansing to suddenly questioning that. It stood down and changed a degree of the fighting there. Again, direct threats to specific combatants on the ground by Canada and the international community would be useful there.

Coercive pressure needs to be applied to the U.A.E. We've already tried diplomatic pressure, and we are where we are today. Canada can employ coercive pressure to the U.A.E. to stop the weapons that flow.

With regard to the conflict gold, just like with conflict diamonds, there are international constructs that can be used against these flows, specifically for gold. The “OECD Due Diligence Guidance for Responsible Supply Chains of Minerals from Conflict-Affected and High-Risk Areas” is an international mechanism that Canada can lean into and use to try to pinch off the gold supply from Darfur to the U.A.E., which is supplying the RSF with weaponry.

Ultimately, of course, limited kinetic action in specific areas in Darfur by Canada and the international community would make a large point.

The tools are there. The coercive, precise tools are there. In my view, Canada, along with the international community, needs to get much more precise, robust and coercive in the application of these tools.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you to the witnesses.

Now I would like to start the period of questions and answers. For the first round, every member has seven minutes.

I would like to start with Mr. Majumdar. The floor is yours.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

I thank all the witnesses for providing testimony on the range of this humanitarian crisis, which is the biggest in the world today. There are 12 million displaced and more than 400,000 killed. Obviously, there are many multi-dimensional aspects to what has created this and what continues to prolong it. It's a very difficult topic that has certainly been borne out in social media in recent days. The world is a lot smaller.

Dr. Medani, thank you for taking the time to share one of the stories from Darfur itself.

I note that this conflict, as Dr. Babb had described, has been fuelled by a few dimensions. Particularly, I'd like to zero in a little bit on the SAF itself as an entity about which there are some very dubious concerns.

The Quad that Dr. Medani described had issued a statement very recently. That included Egypt, Saudi Arabia, U.A.E. and the U.S.A. A core part of the lines that were proposed included “Sudan's sovereignty”, “no...military solution to the conflict” and “unhindered humanitarian” corridors. I think the U.A.E. has contributed $100 million twice now to try to provide alleviation of the conflict that we're seeing in Rufaa, El Fasher and so on.

On the future governance, one of the lines that stood out to me was, “Sudan's future cannot be dictated by violent extremist groups part of or evidently linked to the Muslim brotherhood, whose destabilizing influence has fuelled violence and instability across the region.”

Dr. Babb, on that point, to pick up from your testimony, how is it that the Muslim Brotherhood is connected to the Sudanese military or the SAF? What impact does that have on the conflict?

[Casey Babb]

I'll be brief. The Muslim Brotherhood has been very savvy and strategic over many decades in injecting themselves not just into various conflict zones around the world, but into countries that are at peace, including here in Canada.

In Sudan, they are very much a part of the Sudanese army. They are Islamists in cahoots with the senior ranks of the Sudanese army. They are using this as an opportunity to hopefully exert greater control over Sudan and certain parts of the country, as one of my colleagues here mentioned, in terms of the balkanization of the country. The brotherhood sees this as an opportunity.

I realize that many policy-makers in Washington and Ottawa are concerned with the brotherhood. Sudan is an area of the world that you're going to want to pay very close attention to because, while they are active elsewhere, Sudan could end up being a very transformative place for the brotherhood, depending on how this conflict evolves.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you very much for that.

Following up on that, the SAF is in the Red Sea region, which is a territory that defines so much of the world's geopolitical security. Its trading route has been noted. There is agricultural potential for feeding over a billion people in the region. It's an incredibly important area.

Dr. Babb, what would you say is Iran particularly interested in with respect to Sudan right now? What is it hoping to achieve? Who is it partnered with to provide the SAF with the munitions, the drones and the technologies it's been using to wage this war on the people?

[Casey Babb]

Thank you for the question.

In terms of Iran, as I mentioned in my brief remarks, their proxies throughout the region have been decimated since the heinous terrorist attacks in Israel on October 7. That includes in Syria, in Lebanon and in Gaza, and elsewhere, such as in Yemen.

They are looking at Sudan as a possible area where they can exert greater control and influence. They could then use it, as they have done for many decades around the world, as a hub for terrorist financing, for training in particular, which they've done in the past, and for recruitment. There's really a void there in Sudan where they see opportunity, and there is, of course, a lot of opportunity for them.

Canada and our allies need to make sure we are putting policies in place to make it increasingly difficult for the regime in Iran to exploit the human suffering, the chaos and the carnage in Sudan to achieve their long-term strategic objectives, which, of course, will undoubtedly lead to the loss of Canadian lives in time, just as we saw on October 7.

While Sudan may seem as if it's in a silo, or it may seem as if Iran's activities are siloed from what's happening in Sudan, Canada, Israel and elsewhere, they are not. A lot of this is very connected, and people in Canada need to start waking up to the fact that we need to get serious about Iran in Sudan and the Muslim Brotherhood in Sudan because it could come back to bite us in a very real and deadly way.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you.

In the brief time I have left, Dr. Babb, I'm curious.... This conflict has been spiralling for some time now. I think you said there have been 933 nights of horror of the worst variety the world has seen in a very long time. How is sexual violence being weaponized in this conflict, and how does it compare to some of the other atrocities that Canada has to deal with in looking at how we promote our values and our interests?

[Casey Babb]

Thank you for the question.

Sexual violence is routinely part of conflict, as many people in the room will know. In Sudan, women and girls have been horrifically assaulted. It is used to humiliate, to terrorize, to demoralize and to dehumanize. It is used as a weapon of war. It was used as a weapon of war in Israel on October 7, so there are linkages there as well.

Mothers are being attacked in front of their children, raped in front of their children, including nursing mothers. Nurses are being sexually assaulted as well. Children, frankly, at ages that I can't bring myself to discuss here, are being savagely assaulted as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Can you wrap it up, please, Dr. Babb?

[Casey Babb]

Yes.

A recent UNICEF report found that 33% of the sexual assault victims are boys. We've seen similar things in other conflict zones. This, of course, as others have noted, is one of the most egregious elements of this war in Sudan.