Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 17th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Majumdar

Now I would like to invite Ms. Anita Vandenbeld.

You have the floor for seven minutes, please.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of the witnesses, particularly those of you who have personal tragedies and experiences in your own families and networks. We've been hearing very good testimony today. Hopefully, we'll be able to shed some light on a situation that isn't getting enough attention.

I'd like to start my first question with you, Ms. Onubogu, because you warned about the oversimplification of this conflict. You spoke a little bit about root causes, and I think you were going to elaborate a little bit more and ran out of time.

I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that. What I heard you saying is that religion is really the secondary factor and that we need to look at all of the causes in order to understand how to prevent and how to end this kind of violence. Could you elaborate on that, please?

[Oge Onubogu]

Thank you so much for that question. I appreciate the time given to be able to elaborate on that.

I grew up in Jos, Plateau state. I am actually American-born, but I spent a lot of my time growing up in Jos, Plateau state, and I visit the middle belt regularly. I have been directly impacted by this. I see and I am really deeply aware of how this also impacts once-vibrant communities over time. You see that it is layered by politics and by differences and growing mistrust in communities. These conflicts are protracted. They have gone on for many years.

It's extremely important that we ensure that in the narrative or how we look at this issue, we're able to take into account the layers and the complexities that feed into the issue. Simply looking at it.... As I've often cautioned, it is never wise in the case of Nigeria to say that religion isn't part of a conflict. It's also unproductive to label a conflict in Nigeria, knowing how complex the society is, as solely driven by religion. It makes it difficult for us to be able to address the key root causes of this conflict, which are multi-faceted and overlapping with issues, including the lack of response from the government.

In many years, the government's lack of response has also created room that has fed a narrative. It's important to understand what the institutional challenges are within the government that are driving that lack of response and what the challenges are within communities that are also driving the lack of ability to come together to try to address this issue.

It is a very complex issue. It's one that requires us to be able to cut through the layers and, as one of the witnesses has actually highlighted, go down to the grassroots and connect with the people in these communities. They are directly impacted by these conflicts. They know where it hurts. They understand the changes in their community. I think that when we begin to do that—when we begin to understand the complexity of Nigeria—we will be one step closer, or even closer, to addressing the challenges that we see.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You spoke about the governance failures and impunity. Nigeria is one of the priority countries for Canada in our counterterrorism capacity building program.

What is the best role for the international community when it comes to prevention and building capacity for governments to be able to more effectively handle the situation?

[Oge Onubogu]

I speak more from my understanding of how the U.S. partners with Nigeria. I can't speak to how Canada partners with Nigeria.

In terms of the U.S.'s engagement with Nigeria, a lot of support has gone into counterterrorism efforts. Even as those supports have gone into counterterrorism efforts, over time the threats have only increased. As of 2025, the global terrorism index actually ranked Nigeria in the top 10 of countries that were most impacted by terror. This number has only gone up since when Nigeria was indicated in the ratings for the global terrorism index. It basically signifies that this is more of a systemic problem. It's an institutional challenge.

When we think about security in Nigeria, we have to think about Nigeria's entire security architecture. That's one of the things that I point out to folks because sometimes people do not understand the way Nigeria's security architecture is structured. You have central police. There are no state police or community police in Nigeria. A lot of these conflicts happen at the local level. When they happen at the local level, because Nigeria's policing system is so centralized, you have to make a call to the capital city, Abuja, before you even get police officers out to the community level. Very often, the police officers who might be stationed in that state may be stationed in the capital of the state, and a lot of these conflicts are happening in local, rural communities. Early warning systems are important because communities are able to quickly alert.

Nigeria has gone through different processes of police reform, but none of them have really been effective. It's really about trying to focus and work with Nigeria on strengthening its local policing system. So much support has focused on hardware—buying big machinery—but really trying to focus on the local policing systems and on intelligence are areas that I would propose.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much.

I have just a few seconds left, Mr. Usman, but you said similar things about the complexity, about the governance failures and about the need to engage local communities. Could you comment on those same issues, in the time we have left?

[Mohammed Usman]

Thank you so much for the time.

Yes, as the former speaker answered quite correctly, it's hard to simplify what's going on in Nigeria. My name is Mohammed Usman. Everybody would think I'm a Muslim. My dad is a Muslim and my mom is a Christian. I have five brothers and five sisters. My sisters are all Christians. One of my brothers I know for sure is a Christian. The others, I don't know what they are. That's how a lot of communities in Benue are. That's how Benue is. I think a lot of times we tend to classify people on religion based on their tribe or their name. In Islam, if you're not a Muslim, you're a Christian. You're not any other thing.

Nigeria's problem is a failure of the government. When Boko Haram started, or when they got big, the president was a Christian. They took him out and put in a no-nonsense president, a former general named Buhari, who was going to tackle this issue. His vice-president was a pastor. Buhari was incapacitated for a few months, over a few years, and the vice-president did nothing about it. The current president's wife is an ordained minister. She's a pastor.

In Nigeria, religion is a problem, but when people are talking about the main problem—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Can you please wrap it up? We are one minute over.

[Mohammed Usman]

Okay.

The main problem is not religion, per se, but people take advantage of that to attack people based on their faith. Nigeria's problem is the failure of the government to tackle insecurity. They have allowed these things to grow for a very long time.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

My friend Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe, you have the floor for seven minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

I was just at an event with Tibetans. I arrived just in time.

Ms. Onubogu, it seems there are many causes for the current situation. Based on the work you've done with the Center for Strategic and International Studies, or CSIS, what is the main dynamic fuelling instability in Nigeria today?

[Oge Onubogu]

To your question about what the main dynamic is that feeds instability in Nigeria, it is complex, as has been stated. You know, this year in particular, Nigeria is celebrating 26 years of uninterrupted civilian rule. This is since the country's independence. The country gained independence in 1960. This year marks only 26 years of uninterrupted civilian rule. In many ways, Nigeria is still going through a process of really trying to ensure that in its aspirations to be a real democratic country, its institutions match its aspirations.

It has been mentioned time and time again by some of the other speakers that we have seen this issue of instability become complex. Over time it has metastasized. You've had consecutive governments that have come in during elections and have basically said they will address it. When they get into office, you realize that the institutional capacity actually doesn't match the ability to address these challenges.

A second point as well is the question of political will. In terms of many of these conflicts in Nigeria, as I mentioned, with upcoming elections in Nigeria in 2027, we have seen time and time again in Nigeria where religion and ethnicity have been manipulated by political actors just to gain power. Once they get into office, there is no way they will be able to hold those who helped them get into office accountable. At the end of the day, we see the Nigerian people suffering because politicians are manipulating religion and ethnicity in the country, using it for their own personal gain.

It's a complex issue, one that encompasses the question of politics, one that looks at the question of power and one that looks at the question of security and how society is laid out. We have to understand how each of those are interconnected for us to be able to identify the root causes and real solutions, sustainable solutions, to address the root causes of conflict in Nigeria.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Does your work allow you to make a distinction between violence motivated by religious factors and violence motivated by territorial and economic rivalries?

Is there any way to differentiate between the different motivations for violence in Nigeria?

[Oge Onubogu]

Yes, there is. There are clear instances in Nigeria where you can draw a direct line and say, “This was because of religion.” We've seen it happen in places like Sokoto state or in some of the states where there's sharia law, where people have faced atrocities or blasphemy charges just because of their religion. There are clear instances where you can draw a line. In other environments, where there's a mix, it becomes more complex.

When I say it's a mix of overlapping issues, the Nigerian government has to be able to acknowledge when a conflict is solely driven by religion or conflicts or incidents that are caused by religion, and then also acknowledge conflicts that are complex and mixed. This is where the gap often lies. You need to have the political willingness and those in office who can firmly stand up and say they see incidents where religion is a main driver.

There are clear incidents in Nigeria where you can draw a straight line to show where religion has had a significant role to play in a conflict.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

What role can the international community play?

The African Union comes to mind, as does Canada or perhaps a group of states, like the European Union.

What role can these actors play with regard to what's currently taking place in Nigeria?

Could forums be held internationally where discussions might have an impact on Nigeria?

[Oge Onubogu]

There are different avenues and different spaces where these conversations can take place and are already taking place. As one of the previous speakers already mentioned, religious actors and community leaders in Nigeria—in Africa in general, but in Nigeria most especially, as Nigeria is a very religious society—play a significant role in identifying and working with their communities. In different surveys that have been conducted in Nigeria, when citizens were asked who they trusted at the local level, many of them said they trusted their community leaders, traditional leaders or religious leaders before they mentioned their trust of security actors.

The international community can create a space where these actors can come together and really be able to dialogue. Nigeria is a very important country when it comes to U.S.-Nigeria relations or Canada-Nigeria relations, or when Nigeria stands as a country in the international community of nations. It is time to have a dialogue with Nigeria at a breadth that is honest and brings in different actors within the country that may have felt left out of these conversations. Bring people together for real, honest dialogue.

There is an opportunity here. There is a space here to do it. The time is also right to have this type of discussion. I know this cycle of violence has gone on for too long, and I think people across the board in Nigeria—regardless of their religious background, be they Christian or Muslim—have a broad acknowledgement that the levels of insecurity are very high. You will find a willingness in the Nigerian people to engage.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Onubogu.

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.

Mr. Davies, the floor is yours.

You can take the floor for five minutes.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The discussion around the underlying social issues in Nigeria ranges from a dysfunctional government, as described earlier, to overlapping issues such as the lack of infrastructure on the security side, adequate policing, community safety and politics.

I'm going to ask Dr. Bennett a general question.

What needs to happen first, and what can Canada do, knowing the complexity of the issues on the ground? You mentioned earlier that there's a language barrier for western democracies to have a role in rebuilding when they're fundamentally not able to communicate on the ground. How can we bridge that gap?

In your view, what are the first several steps that need to take place, from a Canadian perspective?

[Rev. Dr. Andrew P.W. Bennett]

I'll begin by saying that I'm a religious freedom expert, not so much a Nigeria expert.

I think the first thing is that we have to recognize what Canada's strengths are with regard to this type of situation. Where can we support the building up of civil society? We have a very good track record in that regard, not simply in Africa but in other parts of the world.

As I said, we should be engaging religious actors, but we have to do that in a way that is respectful of who they are. We also have to try to understand the position they hold within a society, as the previous speaker just mentioned.

I think we have to try to understand what the ways in which we, as Canada, can act and build upon our own strengths are. In terms of what Nigeria needs, grosso modo, I would say that it's what all the other witnesses have said. It's a question of governance and building up governance and of the reform of the security apparatus. I would leave it to them to make comments more on that than I would. In this case, the questions I can respond to best relate to religious freedom.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Usman, can you pick up on that theme, based on the question I asked? Do you have any specific suggestions of what we can do as a government and as a country to help find a pathway to peace and security?

[Mohammed Usman]

Thank you so much.

Yes, it's one word: accountability. I think Canada has the resources to hold Nigeria and the Nigerian government accountable. Canada has the power and influence to ask Nigerians tough questions, and the Nigerian government should answer those questions. I don't think the world has held Nigeria accountable enough, especially the leaders.

If you give them weapons and you give them resources, what if it ends up in the hands of the herdsmen? There is news and rumours and stories about these herdsmen having better equipment than the Nigerian army. How are they getting these materials? How are they getting these guns, helicopters and all these weapons?

The best way is that Canada needs to find a way to make the Nigerian government and Nigerian officials accountable. Ask them tough questions. They should give straight answers on what is going on and how Canada can help to solve the insecurity problems in Nigeria.

I'll add that I'm a Canadian and I'm a Nigerian. We don't want a situation where Canada goes into Nigeria to help them just to show that they're coming to help the Christians. That's not how we want Canada to represent itself. We want Canada to go and say that it wants to help with the insecurity problem in Nigeria, which is a lot. There are so many different things happening, like kidnapping and ransoms, where people end up dying because their families cannot afford to pay. It has nothing to do with religion.

My key word would be that Canada needs to find a way to hold Nigeria accountable for what's going on.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

Thank you for that.

As a Nigerian Canadian or a Canadian Nigerian, what is your opinion on how the media has covered the conflict over the last number of years?

Being a new member of Parliament and researching this issue, I was struck by, in my view, the lack of consistent coverage of the problems and, more importantly, the lack of discussion on the solutions. Can you comment on that?

[Mohammed Usman]

Yes, I can. You can only comment about things that you hear or places you've gone to. Like the speaker who spoke before me, Oge, said, there are a lot of communities in Nigeria on which there's not a lot of attention. There are no security forces present. There's no media. These are the thick core villages.

When I was in the youth corps—after you graduate from university in Nigeria, you serve the country for one year—and I was one of the people who did elections. I have friends who, when they went to the villages in the north, actually had to ride on cows to get to some of these villages. That's how they rig elections; there's no media there.

On the coverage, an average Nigerian, who's in Nigeria, will look at the international coverage and say, “This is not fair.” Is it true that Christians are being persecuted in Nigeria? It's absolutely true, but for the whole world to take it on and make it look like Nigerians are killing Christians on the street and making it look like Nigeria as a state has a problem with Christianity, it makes Nigerians sad. We think, okay, this is not who we are. We have a government problem, a bad government that doesn't want to tackle what's wrong, but we're not a country that has a problem with Christianity. We're just a country that has bad leaders who are not tackling the issue of insecurity.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Now I invite Mr. Zuberi to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today, both by Zoom and in person.

I'd like to start off by acknowledging Rosemary Esene. Thank you for sharing your story, and for the tragedy of your loved ones, we hope for strength for you.

I'd like to allow Mr. Usman to continue. You were giving some remarks, but, unfortunately, time cut you off. Do you have anything to add about your personal story, or thoughts about how your personal story can be an example for a path forward for Nigeria?