Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Nov. 17th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

I invite Ms. Dhillon to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will start with Mr. Usman.

Thank you so much for sharing your story and family background with us, and for speaking of your father as well.

You said that you have brothers and sisters who practice both major religions, Christianity and Islam. You've said many times, as have some other witnesses, that it's not just defined by religion. It's ethnic and cultural differences that are driving these divisions and these conflicts.

I think this is a very important question to ask: Do you believe that just talking about religion and religious divisions can cause even further isolation and further different camps and conflicts, rather than trying to come together to find a solution?

[Mohammed Usman]

Thank you so much. That's a very good question.

At the point where Nigeria is right now, if you're a Christian, a Muslim or a traditionalist, you will take any help you can get. If the help is going to come in the form of helping Christians, it's a win for the entire Nigerian people, because how do you separate the help? How do you go into the country to solve the insecurity and say, “Okay, this is just for the Christians”? You're going to end up helping everybody.

On the conversation about separating Nigerians, I think it's going to be hard to separate Nigerians on that level, because we're that deep in the way our communities are. It's just the nuance of how it sounds or how it looks when the President of the United States says something like the tweet that he sent out. It looks like a lot of things are being missed.

I don't think it would separate Nigerians. At the point where we are, it's so bad that we will take whatever help there is, as long as it's positive help.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

It really hurts the heart to hear that, because there's such a situation of desperation.

Like my colleague MP Zuberi said, we have a huge Nigerian community. I'm very close to the members as well, and I've often spoken with them, especially about this situation. It's very disturbing to them.

The diaspora wants to see those who live in the homeland live with peace and with respect toward each other, because they do it here. What's different over there? That's what we would like to ask you about. Do you think it's possible that they can coexist?

My time is running out, but internally, on the displacement, are they in separate refugee camps? How does the internal displacement look?

[Mohammed Usman]

Yes, and thank you so much again for that question.

I would just add that one thing Nigerians are certain about and in absolute unity for is that Nigeria does not want another Libya, nor do we want a Syria, an Iraq or an Afghanistan. Nigeria doesn't want that. That's not what we want. We want help, but we do not want intervention.

The IDP camps are different camps in different states and in different places. The church has done a lot of work for a lot of IDP camps. The government has its own camps as well. Having these IDP camps, as helpful as they may be, is more reactive than proactive.

At this point, we want more proactive solutions and to not make these people end up in camps instead of being in their homes. That's the solution we're working toward and praying for.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

When somebody is seeking out help internally, they're not divided by religion or ethnic background. It's just “come one, come all” and we will help you. Is that what you're saying?

[Mohammed Usman]

Absolutely.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

That's perfect.

Can you talk to us also about the land grabs? You mentioned a few times that it is land that people are coming after. Can you tell us who's driving these people? Who's empowering them to do this?

How can they have the audacity—I won't call it courage—to come ahead and try to take somebody's land? Who's behind them?

[Mohammed Usman]

To answer that question is tricky. There are a lot of rumours and a lot of reasons why these things happen.

Like I said, Benue, for example, is a very fertile place. There is news and there are rumours and information that states like Nasarawa are discovering a lot of natural resources. There are rumours that there are countries or governments that are tapping into these resources and funding these herdsmen to chase the villagers away.

Now our concern is why the country is not doing anything about it. Nigeria has always been a very strong military force in Africa when it comes to ECOMOG or anything like that. How come with Boko Haram and the herdsmen the Nigerian army can't do anything?

That's where the accountability piece comes in. Canada needs to hold Nigeria accountable and ask, “You are known for ground forces. You are known for a strong military in Africa. What's going on with Boko Haram and these herdsmen? Why can't you solve this problem?”

Again, like some of my fellow witnesses have said, it has to do with politics and it has to do with the individual benefits people are gaining from it. Religion is part of it, but religion is not the main reason why these things are happening.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

From your testimony, all of you, that's what we're picking up here today. It's not a question of division among religions, of my religion against yours. It's all of these other co-factors, but this is being used as a guise, I think, to cover that up.

You mentioned Boko Haram and said that they're also killing Muslims. This would be some of the reasons behind this—is that right? Their ideology is a certain ideology, but they're exercising violence toward Muslims too. There's no rhyme or reason to what's going on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Excuse me. We have exceeded your minutes.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

I'm so sorry. Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

I'll give you 10 or 15 seconds, no more.

[Mohammed Usman]

Thank you so much for that.

Yes, like you said, Boko Haram, when they came out, weren't against any religion. They were against the country as a whole. If you're Muslim and you are preaching against Boko Haram, they will come in and burn your mosque. They kill people in their mosques. It's not religion. It's just terrorism, to put it that simply.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you.

Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Usman, you just said that Canada should hold Nigeria accountable. Usually, Nigeria is a force in Africa. However, the country isn't able to get the job done, if you will.

How can Canada hold Nigeria accountable?

Should there be sanctions against certain officials or certain military leaders?

Is this what you're requesting here at the subcommittee?

[Mohammed Usman]

Thank you so much for that question.

To be honest, I would say that I am probably not versed in the knowledge or the information to answer how Canada could hold Nigeria accountable. Day by day, I'm a branch manager at a bank, and I have to hold myself, my staff and the bank as a whole accountable. If something is happening, I have to be held accountable whether things are going well or badly.

Regarding sanctions, I would not say that. I don't want anything that would make it harder for Nigerians to survive. It would not be something I would ever support.

The politicians and the leaders need to answer tough questions. They need to know that they can't just travel around the world and treat Nigerians like they're not human beings, be they Muslims, Christians, traditionalists or whoever they are. It could be in any form of international relations that the people who are specialized in this department would know of, but Nigeria should be able to look at Canada in a meeting and say, “Okay, these are the problems we have, this is what we need and this is how we need to solve them,” instead of beating around the bush and letting the killings of innocent Nigerians continue forever.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You also told us that you don't want an intervention. However, you need help. That's clear. I think you've made an appeal here.

That said, in your opinion, what would the consequences be if there were no international response to the current crisis in Nigeria? I think that's also what members of the subcommittee need to understand.

What would be the consequences of international inaction with regard to the current crisis in Nigeria, including inaction by the Canadian government?

[Mohammed Usman]

Thank you so much again for that question.

If there's any form of inaction by Canada or international governments, the fear is that whatever is happening will continue escalating. There will be no change; nothing is going to change.

Again, as my colleague Oge said earlier, elections are coming in 2027. These things tend to escalate when the election season comes. The election is always divided by who's going to get the votes from the northern, southern or eastern parts of Nigeria. The north-central area is one that whoever captures it wins the election. They find a way to play politics with all these things. They promise us all this. They capture a little bit of the population, and when they get into power, nothing happens.

The fear of the international community not doing anything means that these things will continue. Churches will keep getting burned. Muslims will keep getting killed. They're going to continue to take farmland and chase people out of their villages and their homes. It's going to be a continuous cycle of things that we're just going to keep talking about while nothing happens. It would be very beneficial for both Nigeria as a country and its people if the international community were to hold Nigeria accountable, in any form possible, by telling them to make a plan and tell the world, “Look, this is the plan. This is what we are doing. This is the help we need, and this is how to resolve this issue that's going on.”

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

With elections coming up, wouldn't it be a good opportunity for the international community to ask the authorities in place to put an end to the violence and, if not, to get involved in this kind of election?

[Oge Onubogu]

I'm sorry. I didn't get your question. I didn't hear you.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Earlier, you spoke of elections.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Your time is up, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, but I can give you another 15 to 20 seconds.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Isn't there an opportunity for the international community to use the upcoming elections as a means to put pressure on the political authorities in place?

[Oge Onubogu]

Yes. It will be a good opportunity to also work with Nigerian civil society as we look toward the elections in 2027. The upcoming elections will be a good opportunity.