Subcommittee on International Human Rights Committee on Dec. 1st, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Ms. Dhillon.

Now I invite Mr. Davies to take the floor for five minutes, please.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to commend everybody who has appeared here today. Your courage and your stories are moving to all of us. As a new member of Parliament, this is a new experience for me, to be able to engage with people from around the world who have a story to share. Canada needs to hear these stories and recognize the issues that you face.

I have to say that I'm not very encouraged today. I'm encouraged that your stories have been made public, but I'm not very encouraged about what I'm hearing is going on in East Africa. Mr. Shire said that 98% of the population is homophobic. Government, police and social groups are all buying into the homophobia and promoting it.

I'm wondering, Mr. Kanyamu, if you could—or anybody, actually.... You've spoken about Uganda, South Sudan and Kenya, but in the rest of Africa, which is obviously a big continent, if you're moving west, are the same trends happening in other countries?

[Paul Kanyamu]

I think in Africa we have only South Africa that is somewhat LGBTQ-friendly. It's only South Africa, if I recall well, and South Africa is way too far from Uganda and other neighbouring countries in the east. I don't think one will even find time to run to South Africa to seek safety. You have to cross something like eight countries to go there, and of course, you have to meet challenges along the way, and violence.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

I'm interested in—

Yes, go ahead, Mr. Wamala.

[Dennis Wamala]

I'll just add to what Paul was saying.

The origin of this anti-gay rhetoric is the same foundation. It's the same people who are spreading this. If you read the laws that are going up in Uganda, Kenya, Ghana and all these countries, the wording is the same. It's the same group who are just sharing the same material all over the place. It's the same movement moving from one country to another. It's just like a snowball effect.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

For example, Tanzania might have the same sort of groundswell of homophobia.

[Dennis Wamala]

It already does.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

It does.

Mr. Kanyamu, you escaped to a refugee camp and found your way to Canada. Do the camps attract a disproportionate number of gay people because they are perceived to be zones of greater safety? If so, how many are currently sitting in camps now who are at risk? Do you have any data on that? Is it disproportionate to other refugees around the world? This is a unique situation in Africa. I'm curious to know the number of people who could possibly be rescued.

[Paul Kanyamu]

When I left Uganda, I went to Kenya. The Kenyan government has an encampment policy whereby all refugees are supposed to live in the camp, with the exception of a very small percentage who can support themselves and are allowed to reside in the urban area. For LGBTQ persons, they're all supposed to be in the camp.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

You would agree, then, that there is a greater proportion of LGBTQ individuals who are in camps in Kenya now. Obviously, they're at risk for violence.

Of the number of people that you are aware of, how many have found their way out? We know the numbers coming to Canada, but are there any other countries that are providing safe passage for these individuals?

[Paul Kanyamu]

For Kenya, in the Kakuma refugee camp in particular, we have around 150 LGBTQ persons, according to some sources on the ground, refugees themselves. Then in the Gorom settlement camp in South Sudan, I know of around 650 LGBTQ persons. These people in South Sudan, they all left Kenya because Kenya was the first country of asylum. Then they had to run away from Kenya because of too much homophobia. They went to South Sudan. In South Sudan, there are around 650 and, in Kenya at the Kakuma camp, there are about 150 of them.

[Fred Davies, Conservative, Niagara South, ON]

Since you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you, Mr. Davies. Your time is over.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you Mr. Chair.

Ms. Al-Khatib, I will give you the floor, since you seemed to want to respond.

[Rabab Al-Khatib]

Thank you so much.

I just want to add on to the numbers. What we know for LGBTQ Ugandans outside of Uganda is that, until today, only in 2025, we have more than 300 requests for support. From Kenya, the number is 162, and there are 128 from South Sudan, just to be clearer on the numbers.

Of course, these people do not have a clear path to resettlement and protection.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I imagine that this is an urgent matter, given what's happening in the areas where these people are.

[Rabab Al-Khatib]

Exactly, 100%. These are LGBTQ people in a lot of distress in two camps, in South Sudan and in Kenya, where they have no access to registration and no access to health care. They are under constant attack. Their shelters are being burned. They don't have the right to work. They don't have the right to even express their sexual orientation and gender identity. Yes, they are the top priority cases at risk who need to be resettled and who need, for sure, a path to protection.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We've been talking a lot about the people who need help to get out of those areas and that we need to bring them to Canada or other safe countries as quickly as possible.

I imagine that, when they arrive here, after experiencing this trauma, they receive some form of psychological support. We can't just let them down once they get here. They have experienced a type of stress that no one here can understand.

What do you think, Ms. Al-Khatib and Mr. Kanyamu?

[Rabab Al-Khatib]

Are you asking me?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, but I'd like Mr. Kanyamu to answer as well.

[Rabab Al-Khatib]

Okay.

Yes, of course. I think this is a very important point. The path to protection is not only resettlement. It's not only to move a person from danger to Canada, where we know it's safe. The ultimate goal is that Canada becomes their home. For Canada to become their home, there should be a way to support folks who are being resettled through the journey of resettlement.

Rainbow Railroad already has started working on community support groups, for example, in Canada. One of the recommendations that we always try to pass and voice to the Canadian government is that resettlement organizations in Canada need to be more focused and need to have the expertise to work with resettled LGBTQI+ people who came from places where there was a lot of trauma or where they have been persecuted, which we don't see right now. We are also trying to fill in the gaps through the community support groups that we have.

Definitely, there's a big need to work on the resettlement component, because it's not enough to just move people to Canada. You need to help them integrate and you need to have the expertise to deal with people who have been under that kind of trauma.

[Paul Kanyamu]

As a supplement to Rabab's point, we have organizations here on Vancouver Island such as Reaching Out Assisting Refugees. Such organizations help to receive refugees. They provide support right from the time a refugee is approved for sponsorship. They provide post-arrival support, financial support and psychosocial services and other services when a refugee arrives here. When a refugee arrives in Canada, he or she is given support for one full year.

The government could maybe help to support these grassroots organizations in capacity building, through financial help, because most of the time the funds are from Canadians themselves, from volunteers. We form a group of 10 people to sponsor someone from Afghanistan or from Kenya. Maybe the government could help by supporting these grassroots organizations on the ground.

[The Chair, Liberal, Fayçal El-Khoury]

Thank you Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.

Madame Vandenbeld, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you to all of you for your testimony today.

Paul, you told a story that is quite compelling and terrible, but I think it will certainly help inform this committee and others in terms of recommendations going forward.

You've spoken about asylum. You've spoken about the need to make it faster to bring people out of these camps because of the impossible choice between the persecution at home in Uganda or the persecution that happens in the camps.

I think it was you, or perhaps Dennis, who mentioned a rapid response mechanism. I'd be very curious to hear more about what that would look like. I know that in the past this committee has recommended a human rights defenders stream of asylum or immigration. I wonder what that rapid response would look like.

I open that to anybody who wants to answer.

[Paul Kanyamu]

I'll start.

First, these refugees are registered with UNHCR. UNHCR works directly with the Government of Canada and other resettlement countries. I'm talking about Canada in particular in this case. In South Sudan, as an example, refugees can be referred for resettlement. They can be given priority.

By the way, I didn't mention to this committee that most of these refugees in South Sudan were under the U.S. refugee admissions program. When the new administration came in, all the resettlement spots were stalled. They were instead channelled back and told, no, we can no longer take you because of the new policies at hand. This included those who had finished medicals, security screening and all that stuff.

What the committee could do, or what I would ask the committee to do, is liaise with the Canadian offices abroad, such as the embassies, to connect with UNHCR and identify these LGBTQIA+ persons. There are not many. There are around 650 in South Sudan and around 150 in Kenya, as far as I know. They could refer these cases for resettlement.

Second, similar to this issue, there are refugees who are privately sponsored by Canadians on the ground who may be sponsoring somebody out there. The cases of those people who are sponsored could be expedited, because they already have the support on the ground. We are ready to receive these people. It's only that their cases are not flowing smoothly.