International Trade Committee on Feb. 6th, 2008

[John Maloney, Liberal, Welland, ON]

You've referenced a dispute resolution mechanism. The U.S., I understand, has an expedited dispute resolution mechanism for the auto sector. Would you advocate that we have the same, or better?

[Shirley-Ann George]

Well, I don't believe “better” is an option. Would it be nice to have the same? I don't know the fine details of that agreement. In fact, I know that some in the U.S. auto industry don't think the U.S. got enough in that provision. But it was what the U.S. was able to negotiate.

The real question is, if we don't get that provision, which I think is a possibility, is that a real problem for us? This would definitely be one of the factors we would need to weigh when we assess whether or not the agreement is good enough.

[John Maloney, Liberal, Welland, ON]

Would that be one of the lines to be drawn in the sand, an expedited resolution process?

[Shirley-Ann George]

At this point, I don't know if it would be appropriate to draw lines in the sand. I think at this point what we need to do is encourage our negotiators to do everything they can. The fact that this committee is asking these questions will give some additional incentive to our negotiators and the Koreans to see what else can be done to come together, to see where some of the gaps are. I don't know if we need to draw a line in the sand.

I would say that if a deal is struck the whole package for the auto industry will be closely scrutinized. We'll need to look at all the different components.

[John Maloney, Liberal, Welland, ON]

Thank you, Ms. George.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Mr. Miller.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. George and Mr. Crow, thanks for being with us and for being able to connect through technology.

My first question is for Ms. George. There is some question about what constitutes a good agreement. I think the bottom line is, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I'm going to be the devil's advocate. If we don't sign an agreement or investigate one and the U.S. does, would Korean cars come into Canada anyway? Would you agree with that? You can answer yes or no.

[Shirley-Ann George]

Korean cars are coming into Canada now.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Exactly. That's my point.

[Shirley-Ann George]

So if your question is whether more Korean cars will come into Canada if we don't sign a deal and the U.S. does. I believe the Koreans have some growing market share in any case. The Koreans market a product that many Canadians want to buy, and they're fierce competitors, so I don't think I could agree completely that even if—

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

That's fair enough. My time is moving on here.

There's also been a lot of talk, Ms. George, about the dollar and how it's affected our manufacturing industry and our export markets, and what have you. Of course, I've heard a lot of comments here at committee and outside of committee about diversifying, about not keeping all of our eggs in one basket.

Would you agree, first of all, that it is good to diversify our exports, and could a Korea free trade agreement do that?

[Shirley-Ann George]

Yes, it is good to diversify our exports and—not to take away from the exports and jobs created by selling to the U.S.—to grow in other markets where opportunities exist. If we had a good agreement with Korea, then, yes, there would be additional opportunities for Canadian companies there, absolutely.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Crow, I have one of these BlackBerrys too, and I'm not very technological, but if I can operate it, I guess anybody can. You could use that in a commercial.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Anyway, I've heard you say here today that doing nothing is not an option—and I think we all agree with that.

If your company had access through this agreement into Korea.... I'm not sure what all your business interests are and where they are around the world and whether you have other access into the Asian market now, but I have heard people at the committee say, from questioning, that this could have the potential to open up other markets in Asia.

Could you talk a bit about that and how it might benefit RIM?

[Robert Crow]

Well, BlackBerry has actually been in Asia for about three or four years. My response follows the comment I made to the previous member's question about the technology. We have been actively marketing BlackBerry in countries where the predominant world standard has been done, and our business is building nicely in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, etc. But these are earlier days in other areas—Japan, Korea, China—where the technology has been somewhat different. But generally, we are now launched in Japan, and our BlackBerry service has been available for a couple of years now in China. With the convergence of the world standards, we see this becoming a great opportunity.

I think the more important thing that is also happening is that the major economic powers in the Asia-Pacific region are vying for dominance, for who will be the financial centre of the region and who will be the business capital of the region. To the extent that all of those countries have aspirations, it will mean they will want to open up their economies, particularly to embrace the advanced technologies that financial sectors and other business sectors require. I think that rivalry is also extremely healthy in this regard, and, frankly, it bodes well for companies like ours.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Would it then be fair to ask, while you may have been one of those companies leading the pack and have made a start there, could this deal assist in any way to at least help speed up the expansion in Asia?

[Robert Crow]

Absolutely. As we went from two countries, Canada and the United States, and then into western Europe and now into 125 countries, our brand has become well known around the world. The utility of the device is well known. Its ease of use is well known, and we have many people who comment, “I'm not great with this kind of stuff, but I can really use this”—and we take that as a high compliment.

So there's a network effect, as we call it. One begets another, begets another, and as the countries go up arithmetically, the relationships go up geometrically, which is very, very good for building a global business.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you, Mr. Miller.

Mr. Crow, that was Larry Miller, and you can reach him through the House of Commons in Ottawa, for promotional purposes.

We'll now move to Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Crow, the BlackBerry and RIM technology have been part and parcel of my life since even before I got elected. It bothers me when I hear that the Korean market is deliberately trying to stop you from coming in. Do you agree that it is a deliberate effort they're making?

[Robert Crow]

It has all the features of something that would be deliberate, but I don't believe we've ever talked to anybody who said it was deliberate. But, clearly, there is pride in the standard they have. There are forces that believe this is still a good and wonderful thing to do. What their ultimate motives are is not immediately clear. No doubt there would be some that could perhaps be characterized as acting with a deliberate nature.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

You have expressed a trust in dispute settlement mechanisms in the deal with Canada and Korea. Are the dispute settlement mechanisms in the WTO inadequate for RIM, and how?

[Robert Crow]

If you look into them, those dispute settlement mechanisms are country to country, and they're very lengthy. They would be available, but you're talking about processes that take a great deal of time and energy and would also need to be carefully considered.

I'm hopeful that we would have dispute settlement mechanisms that, first of all, would have a very strong informal component, where colleagues across the table from each other could actually discuss things informally. Then it could escalate to a more formal process that would perhaps be quicker and not as dramatic as what we have seen in some of the celebrated WTO examples.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

All members agree that we have an emotional attachment to this technology, the number one technology in the world.

The other question I would ask is this. If we sign this agreement with Korea and it goes through, how many additional Canadian jobs would you be able to create here?