Evidence of meeting #34 for International Trade in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was colombia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON
With all due respect to my colleague, please....
Liberal
Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON
The argument the government is making is that we need to engage in the Americas, that we need to promote trade, that we need better market access. The argument can be made, and it's a legitimate one, in the sense that Canada is a trading nation and we need to look at markets. The question is, is Colombia the right market presently? If not, what kinds of conditions need to exist for Colombia to be a good market?
President, Canadian Labour Congress
I think Colombia has to demonstrate by its behaviour and its attitude that it respects the kind of democracy that we practice in this country. I think we should do trade deals only with nations that have the same respect for democracy and human rights that we have.
Our Prime Minister showed some leadership in China when he raised those concerns. When we asked him to raise it in Colombia, he said this was not the time for that. All the time is the time to raise the issues of respect for human life and human rights, and Colombia has not demonstrated a proper regard for these issues. Other jurisdictions in South America have shown the same disregard, and our country won't negotiate with them. Why are we negotiating with Colombia?
Bloc
Serge Cardin Bloc Sherbrooke, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to share my time with my colleague.
Good afternoon, madam, gentlemen. My motivation is a little low this afternoon, especially after what we heard over the weekend. It seems that the free trade agreement with Colombia will be concluded in the coming weeks or, at least, the coming months. We went there and met people, and we were supposed to table a report and make recommendations. Was all that work in vain? I am sorry that you came here to speak about a matter that has been practically decided. All that is left is that, at some stage, there will be an implementing act and then the decisions will follow.
There are some significant aspects. We met people who completely disagreed with this free trade agreement. People, mainly businesspeople... even though some were not in favour of the agreement, it was generally supported. But the majority expressed significant reservations, given the government's real position on the protection of human rights.
We knew that significant additions to the agreement were needed. I am on record as saying that it is time to change the nature of our agreements to include human and workers' rights, as well as environmental safeguards. This is not just a question of reaching subsidiary or parallel agreements. The word parallel says it all: two lines that never meet. We are told that there will be some, but what form will they take, exactly? We are told that it is like the agreement with Peru. That is the basis on which we are supposed to make our decisions.
My colleague has some concerns about agriculture, and about pork in particular. He has some questions on that. So I will let him ask them.
Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to start by saying that I have just returned from four days in Medellin where I attended the meeting of the Organization of American States. I was able to observe the prevailing spirit in Colombia, and I am very optimistic about it.
Mr. Georgetti, can that country's approach to the environment and to the rules that protect workers change quickly, or are things at a standstill and changing very slowly?
President, Canadian Labour Congress
I don't know, but I can tell you that they won't change without motivation. Signing agreements with them while they are behaving the way they are now will not change them at all. It only reinforces them in their way of acting. I think we have to show more leadership than that. If countries want to trade with us, fine. But we have to make sure that both countries have the same respect for law and benefit from the same rules of trade.
Our membership does not believe that the trading arrangements we've negotiated to date have benefited them. And most Canadians feel the same way. In fact, StatsCan records suggest that we were right, that most Canadians, especially the ones we represent, have actually lost ground in standard of living during the last 25 years. Many Canadians on the lower end of the pay scale have lost over 20% of their economic vitality in the post-free trade era. That's not much of a validation of the benefits of trade or the way we negotiate it.
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Mr. Georgetti, in your introduction, you mentioned that Canadian workers do not support this project that is now signed, sealed and delivered. How about Colombian workers? Do you have contacts with them?
National Representative for the Americas, International Department, Canadian Labour Congress
We have decades of contact with Colombian workers. I think Mr. Georgetti mentioned in his notes that we spoke this morning with the president of the largest central labour body, who is at the ILO at this very moment, along with a Canadian delegation in which the Canadian Labour Congress plays a part.
We have been working very closely with the Colombian trade unions. We issued a joint statement last June, just prior to the announcement. In this joint statement we bilaterally committed together to fight for fair trade between our countries, to oppose the kind of NAFTA-type agreement that would bring more devastation and more destruction to the Colombian economy basically because of the difference in the levels of economic development between these two countries.
The Colombian trade unions have been very active in putting forth arguments and protecting their society from the free trade agreement with the United States. We've been working also with the unions in the United States and Colombia together, to work for the benefit of Colombia and Colombian workers.
Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Mr. Pomerleau or Mr. Asnong, have you read the agreement between the United States and Colombia?
Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
So you were able to see the agreement between the USA and Colombia, but not the one between Canada and Columbia.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
Actually, no. But we are somewhat familiar with the details.
Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
The details about the trade in pork with the United States?
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
No, the trade in pork with Colombia.
Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
You are talking about the trade in pork with Colombia, but with respect to the United States.
In your brief, you said that your exports had dropped from 3 million tonnes to 2.5 million. Do you attribute that to the agreement with the USA?
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
Yes, directly. Colombian buyers do not hide the fact. They want a stable trade environment. The agreement with the United States gives them that, although the United States has not yet ratified it.
We see that with other countries too. The first country to sign a free trade agreement is the one that gets...
Bloc
Marcel Lussier Bloc Brossard—La Prairie, QC
They had no assurances from the Canadian government that it would apply the same rules as the Americans to pork exports.
Do you have any guarantees from the Government of Canada?
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
We know exactly what the Government of Canada has negotiated with Colombia. We have the details. We have been given some here and some there.
