International Trade Committee on Feb. 5th, 2009

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Angela Crandall]

Certainly. The committee can always call the minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Technically, I think the point is that you certainly have a right to call the minister at any time you want, but the minister isn't obligated to attend. I'd leave that to the discretion of the minister should the committee decide in its wisdom that it wants to invite the minister.

We have another couple of speakers on the list, but before we get to that, I don't want to run out of time before we decide what we might do next week. We did have a brief chat amongst some of the members prior to the meeting. It was suggested, because we have a number of things coming up and because we have a number of new members on the committee, that we might start on Tuesday with departmental officials giving us an overview of the department. Then it was suggested that this might include those officials who have been involved with the EFTA agreement, because that is before the House and, one would presume, is soon going to come to this committee.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

We're voting at three o'clock.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Yes, there's a vote today at three o'clock.

We would be able to give notice to the department that at the Tuesday meeting we would like to have a departmental briefing, perhaps for the first hour, and then an EFTA briefing following that.

If the committee determines that they want to have witnesses, I just think it's fair to the clerks and to those witnesses that we give as much notice as possible. I'm not suggesting this or leading the committee, but if it is the committee's wish to hear witnesses on the EFTA agreement, although we have already heard witnesses on it, we could do that on Thursday and allow sufficient notice to witnesses so they could get together and have a week to go.

In any event, I don't mean to lead the committee. It's whatever you want to do.

We have a speakers list here of Monsieur Cardin, Mr. Julian, and Mr. Keddy, and then we might just have a little discussion on future business.

Monsieur Cardin.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Chairman, you are aware that there are two official languages here, and that interpretation does take a little time. When a vote is called—something that is extremely important—I would like the chair to pause for a few seconds. I checked with my colleague, who did have the opportunity to hear you call for the vote. However, I have to say that I did not hear you call for a vote. In any case, we agree on the fact that we did not hear you ask who was against the motion. It wasn't very clear to me. If ever I had to chair a committee in the future, I would take that time when necessary. If I worked as quickly as you do, Mr. Chairman, many people would probably forget to vote. I just wanted to point this out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you for your comment. I appreciate it. I'll ask the clerk to give me a little tug, too, to give you that time and consideration.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Chair, we'll come back to the estimates in a moment, but I would like to move that we set up the routine motion that was missing: a steering committee for this standing committee, and that the steering committee be composed of the chair and one representative from each of the Conservative, Liberal, Bloc, and NDP parties.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Are you moving a motion to that effect?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Mr. Julian has moved a motion that we have a steering committee composed of, as he indicated, one member from each party. Was that the notion?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

It would be the chair, of course, and then one representative from each party.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

We may or may not have had a steering committee in the past. To address this, we have the motion on the floor right now, and I just want to give an indication of where we've been.

I don't know if we even did set up a steering committee last time around. I found we didn't really need one. On many of the matters that were going to be discussed, whether it was agenda or matters normally discussed at a subcommittee—if that was your intent, Mr. Julian, to discuss agenda or future business of the committee, or whatever—I found that we were generally able to receive consensus around the table and allow everybody's input into establishing those things and we didn't really need a subcommittee. Rather than have a subcommittee, we let the whole committee decide these matters in open consideration.

I just add that. That's the reason we didn't, and that's the reason I didn't include one today, because we didn't seem to need one in the past. But we have a motion on the floor and we'll welcome speakers to debate whether we want to have a steering committee and whether it should be formed in the manner proposed by Mr. Julian.

I had Mr. Keddy, Mr. Allison, Mr. Cannis, and Mr. Cardin on the previous list. We will now have a new list based on Mr. Julian's motion.

Did you want to speak to the motion?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Yes, please, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

You start the debate on your motion to have a subcommittee.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

We did have a steering committee under Mr. Cannis's mandate in the 38th Parliament. It worked very, very well. It actually saved us a lot of time at the committee level because the parties were able to sit down and agree on an agenda beforehand.

In the 39th Parliament, we did set up a steering committee. Your predecessor essentially stopped the practice of having the steering committee meet. In every Parliament, we've set up a steering committee. It would save an enormous amount of time to have a steering committee meet and agree on the agenda, so it makes eminent sense to do that. In other committees I've been part of, such as the transportation committee, having the steering committee has meant saving committee time.

If our concern, as the Conservatives have said, is about having witnesses brought forward and ensuring that we're maximizing our time with witnesses, it makes a lot more sense to discuss the agenda and the procedure with the representative of the Liberal Party and the Bloc, and the Conservatives will be there as well, and the NDP, and you. In that way, we hammer out that consensus and bring it forward to the committee. It saves an enormous amount of time and it allows for us to move forward and do all the work that we need to get done. Since we've set it up in every single Parliament, it makes sense to set it up for the 40th Parliament.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

My mother used to say, if everyone jumped off the bridge, would you jump off the bridge?

Who is next? Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I'm trying to understand Mr. Julian's logic, and I'm going to speak against this motion.

Mr. Julian made the comment that, through the chair's leadership, things have run very well. Based on that, there were several things that he felt should just be kept the same. So from my standpoint, I have tremendous confidence in this chair, as I think the committee does.

My mom said something else: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think she made that up. My point would be that if it's working well, I love the spirit of inclusiveness within this committee, and as the new person, not just to Parliament but to this committee, the idea of participating in a more fulsome way would be appreciated. From that standpoint, I absolutely endorse the spirit of full participation, and not to drag on, because my concern about politics, as someone who doesn't have that as a background, is that after it's all said and done, there's a lot more said than done.

From that perspective, I would suggest that we not proceed with the steering committee. Thank you.

[An hon. member]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

We'll soon have a second meeting going on here, Mr. Julian. You're missing the debate on your motion here by having sidebar meetings.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I'll be reading the transcripts with a lot of interest.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Do you have a written motion that we could have in front of us?

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I want to speak on the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

I just wanted to have the makeup of the committee clear, as well as the.... There seem to be two parts of it: one that we would have a steering committee, and secondly, the makeup of the committee. I think there might be some difference of view there.

Mr. Cannis.

[John Cannis, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm always pleased how my friend Peter Julian refers to how we ran the committee some years ago. It was a subcommittee, Mr. Chairman, of the committee on foreign affairs and international trade under the Honourable Jim Peterson at that time, and we did work well. I sensed that, and it was one of the reasons I was enticed to seek to serve on this committee as well. I'm sensing that we will be working very well.

I'm torn between one and the other and I'll tell you why. I had the honour of chairing the committee on national defence and veterans affairs, now known just as the national defence committee. As much as we had a steering committee formally on paper, we also discussed the agenda amongst members, and we really made great progress. I'm sensing that we could do the same here as well. We could elect a steering committee, for the sake of being effective and efficient. In my view, it's an excellent exercise, a positive exercise of exchange when we do set the agenda collectively here from all parties, giving us an opportunity to put our thoughts on the table, agree to disagree, however it is. At the end of the day we walk away with an agenda.

I'm torn right now between one or the other. Maybe we're going to go towards a steering committee. The option I would like to see is for us to discuss the agenda, and as you said earlier, we can take half an hour, an hour, or whatever it takes, to plan collectively together. I'm sure we'll find a way to get on the same page together, sir. I'm leaning towards that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you.

Mr. Silva.