International Trade Committee on Oct. 27th, 2010

[Martha Harrison]

I can also add a couple of thoughts to that.

The Jordan investment authority based in Amman has expressed to me a number of times that Jordan businesses are quite interested in doing business with Canada in particular. They enjoy the political climate of Canada. They enjoy welcoming Canadians. So on a political level, Canadian businesses may well have an advantage over our U.S. friends in Jordan. They're welcoming our investment. They're welcoming trade with our nation. Canadians just have to spend a little time there to see that the doors are wide open and Jordan is open for business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Merci, monsieur Guimond.

We have time for two more quick ones.

A quick question just occurred to me when you were talking, and from some of the responses we've had back and forth--on committee business.

It was suggested to us by someone from one of the larger Canadian business organizations--I think it was John Manley--that when the trade committee visits countries abroad, they might include representatives of the business community, perhaps labour unions and that sort of thing, much as a ministerial visit would be.

You've been on both sides of that equation. I don't wish to get into a long discussion, but I wonder what your perception of that might be.

[David Hutton]

I think that's a very powerful suggestion, quite frankly. I'll give you an example, if you'll allow me, Mr. Chair.

Canada just signed a memorandum of understanding with Saudi Arabia in the health care sector. To implement that, the provinces of Ontario and Alberta, Export Development Corporation, and the Canada-Arab Business Council all thought we would organize trade missions to go forward. What is happening, I'm happy to say, is that under the CABC's umbrella, we will hold a trade mission that hopefully will include provincial ministers. We will host the actual events inside Saudi Arabia so that there will be a Canadian view.

Now the trade committee could play that role, quite honestly, very admirably because you represent the whole range of Canadian interests and parliamentarians. I think that's a very elegant solution. Quite frankly, it's one that I would encourage the committee to consider.

You would also bring, quite frankly, a potential continuity. I'm obviously very pleased to see Mr. Cannis again, with whom I had the privilege of speaking earlier before the committee meeting. That's a longevity that certainly in the Middle East has enormous significance and importance. If they can speak to the same person three or four times, they have a relationship and a confidence in that relationship.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you. That's very helpful.

I'm sorry to take away from the committee here. We're just going to have the final two questions. We're going to go to Mr. Keddy for five and then wrap it up with Mr. Cannis.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome to our guests, witnesses.

This has been a debate that's actually moved through this committee fairly quickly, without a lot of dissenting opinion, but with some dissenting opinion. Maybe before I get into my real questions I'll just say thank you for your service in the trade commission. I would put on the record that pound for pound, our trade commissioners and diplomatic staff abroad are as good as any in the world.

[David Hutton]

Thank you.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

They do a fantastic job in every country that I've ever had contact with them. They're certainly front and centre on all of the issues.

I do agree with your comment that there is a cost of doing business and there's a protocol for doing business. There's also the political reality of budgets and budgeting items, and sometimes all of us in the political world, quite frankly, are our own worst enemies. We're the first ones to hold up that this has been a wasteful expenditure when in reality it's been an expenditure that is the cost of doing business. I think that was important for me to get on the record.

You mentioned that if we considered services in this agreement with Jordan, we would probably double our $66 million in trade. The fact that we do a total of $359 billion worth of trade in the Middle East I think is an outstanding number that most people have not considered when they consider this agreement.

I appreciate your point--others have raised it, and we've raised it ourselves--that this is a stepping-stone agreement. We see this as a gateway into much greater things, some with more risk than others. I guess my question to you, and I don't think there's any opportunity that this would fail at this point.... If we don't move forward, how far back in the pack are we going to be? Just about everyone else is already there. We need to remain competitive certainly in the Arab countries and throughout North Africa, throughout Africa. I don't have that number, but I think we'd be a long way back in the pack.

[David Hutton]

Well, Mr. Keddy, I certainly would agree with that comment very strongly. This is symbolic as well as practical. To step back at this point in our relations with the Arab world I think would have, quite honestly, an enormous consequence.

I welcome the tone of this discussion certainly and encourage that this will enjoy a rapid approval by Parliament. It's being watched. I can say that from my personal contacts with the Arab ambassadors. It's also being watched because of my knowledge of the Arab press. This will be picked up as an extremely positive event, just as the visit of Minister Van Loan was in the press recently, and that counts. An enormous amount is on the coattails of these activities. That's why I think we need to educate, as I said before, our public that this is what we do, this is how we do it, and this is the return on our investment.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Ms. Harrison, you made a statement that this FTA sends a clear signal that we're open for business. I'm not certain we have a signal out there that says we're not open for business. I know there are some controversies, and some will remain.

However, I think the point that we put this agreement in place, and we look at this as a gateway agreement—I'll use the word “gateway” again—that really opens up a tremendous potential for Canadian businesses. If Canadian businesses are doing well, that means Canadian workers are doing well.

[Martha Harrison]

I agree with your comment. As a personal example—using your “gateway” term as well—once this free trade agreement is implemented, I expect there will be more businesses from Canada travelling to Jordan to experiment with the area, to start to negotiate on business deals. I have personally witnessed a few occasions, having been in Amman, where I was accompanying some Canadian businesses and the embassy staff was able to introduce them to additional business offerings in the neighbouring countries.

Not only does this provide an opportunity for Canadian business to expand in Jordan, but instantly they have doors open to the surrounding regions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you.

Before we conclude, Mr. Cannis, I did steal two minutes of Mr. Julian's time, so I'm going to give you back that time right now.

Mr. Julian, if you promise you're not going to talk about Camp Mirage, the floor is yours.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I already agreed to that. I had two questions for clarification. The first is for Mr. Hutton. In your remarks, you mentioned $359 billion. I think we all knew you meant “million”, but the parliamentary secretary just repeated the figure. I want to be absolutely certain we're talking about $359 million in exports, $83 million of which goes to Jordan in the BMENA countries.

[David Hutton]

Yes. I did say--

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

He did say “billion,” but he meant “million”. That would be twice what we export to the U.S.

[David Hutton]

I think you're right, but I have the figures here, so I'll clarify and confirm.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

The second question, which is around the Canada-Arab Business Council, is to Ms. Harrison. I understand you don't get any Canadian funding. I could be wrong on that, so I just wanted to get a sense of where your funding comes from. Do you receive funding from the federal government or a federal government agency?

[Martha Harrison]

I will have to pass the CABC funding question to Mr. Hutton. I know members pay to be on the CABC, but I am not privy to the financial statements. I sit as a member as opposed to a board member. I'm sure Mr. Hutton can provide that information.

[David Hutton]

Certainly. With enormous apologies, I read these statistics, which I printed off this morning, incorrectly. It's $4.89 billion. That's the number.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

That's including the whole region--it's $11.5 billion.

[David Hutton]

Exactly. Those are the figures, and that's what should be on the record. I'm very sorry for misleading you. I quite honestly glanced at the bottom figure in this presentation--

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Would you mind giving us a quick rundown of the other countries included there? BMENA includes Saudi Arabia, right?

[David Hutton]

Yes. These are from Statistics Canada. In 2009, at the end of the calendar year, these were the export only figures: for the United Arab Emirates, $1.3 billion; Saudi Arabia, $1.2 billion; Egypt, $639 million; Iraq—interestingly enough—$489 million; Libya, $263 million. The two-way trade for Jordan is $107 million. That's interesting.

Anyway, the one thing about statistics is that they get complicated very quickly. Again, my most sincere apologies for misleading this committee.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you. There's still the funding question.

[David Hutton]

I think the Canada-Arab Business Council is an interesting example. We are completely membership- and event-driven. We have about 100 members. It includes most of the major Canadian exporters to the region: SNC-Lavalin, Nexen, and others. We rely completely on their modest annual subscriptions and the revenue we make from holding certain events and trade missions. Quite honestly, it's a challenge.

I think one of the issues we have as a country is how we structure our business councils, because many councils in the Arab world look to us as their counterpart organization. If we travelled to Jordan or to Saudi Arabia, the Jordan-Canada Business Council would host a very nice event for any delegation we took there, but when they come, we're hard pressed to reciprocate unless we can find a corporate sponsor.

It's an awkwardness, and I think the whole template of Canadian export councils, business councils, is something that would benefit from an overall review, and government funding—both provincial and federal—would be part of that review.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Good. Thank you.

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