International Trade Committee on Oct. 27th, 2010

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you very much for your excellent presentation, I must say.

It's really wonderful to have you here, Mr. Hutton, because you have both trade commission experience and also ambassadorial experience. You also know the terrain in the area we're dealing with. Given that experience--you've looked at this free trade agreement quite carefully, I'm sure--is there anything you feel maybe needs to be added? Do we have all the mechanisms in place to have an effective agreement? I think you laid out a very compelling argument as to why we should have this agreement, and you told us the importance of this agreement, also, for the entire region. I think those arguments have already been made. I just want to hear from you a final comment, given your background and your experience, on whether you think there's anything else that needs to be added to this agreement.

[David Hutton]

I think it's as comprehensive as is probably appropriate and needed at this particular time. It's open for amendment.

Quite frankly, what I found most attractive about it is that it was undertaken and negotiated quite expeditiously. I think it's better to have many of these rather than one perfect one. The European Union has been negotiating with the GCC for something like 17 years.

So I say go for it, and use this as a template to multiply and go forward.

Again, these things matter. Impressions matter. With absolutely no disrespect, I think it's enormously important that we watch every dollar we have, and to get on an airplane and fly economy class is laudable. That's what I have done most of my career. But to be at the other end of the airplane and wait with a minister of the government until the last passenger comes out--and it's a Canadian minister--I tell you that is a setback in our trade relations. I just make that observation, quite honestly, with enormous respect for the complicated issues we all face.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you very much.

There also seems to be a coalescing in the gulf region of an economic trade community, and I'm wondering whether Jordan will eventually play a role in that particular community.

[David Hutton]

Jordan is not a member of the gulf--

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I realize that. But whether it's planning to enter or whether it's playing a role, how would that evolve in the region, is what I want to know.

[David Hutton]

I will ask Martha Harrison to expand on this.

Quite frankly, I think there is huge, untapped potential in Syria for Canada, and particularly in Kurdistan.

Obviously the Americans have put an embargo on Syria, which restricts the freedom of their companies to operate. That's an opportunity for Canada. Kurdistan is wide open, and there we have set a platform, by our non-involvement, of literally an open door. This free trade agreement would allow us to use Jordan as a base to go into those difficult markets as well as to benefit from the Jordanian one.

Martha.

[Martha Harrison]

Yes. The nice thing about the location of Jordan is that it's bordering on some very important potential markets for Canada. I know from my experiences at the embassy there that Iraq will also be a very important market for Canadian businesses moving forward. So once Canadian businesses have their foot on the ground in Jordan, it becomes that much easier to expand to the neighbouring countries.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you. We're going to move back to this side of the table.

Mr. Allison, I think you have some questions.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to be sharing my time with Mr. Holder.

I just want to make a comment that certainly when I have travelled around the world, our foreign service people are the best. They do an awful lot. I've had nothing but great experiences with them.

My quick question is around the supply chain.

Mr. Hutton, you did mention that, and I think that's certainly an opportunity. Where do you see Canadian companies using the supply chain as an opportunity for business in places like Jordan? What are your thoughts on that?

[David Hutton]

Again, I don't know the details, but I know there is quite a developed military equipment industry in Jordan. They make special light vehicles that are comfortable travelling through the sand and through the desert. I know from my time in the region that there were a number of Canadian companies involved in supporting some of those activities. This is not heavy military equipment. It's basically just utility trucks and so on, specialized equipment of that kind. But that would be one example.

I have no doubt that in the other sectors, if one is supplying agricultural products, which would be an immediate beneficiary, it doesn't take long to get into the questions of dryland farming, irrigation, and all of the other challenges they face for their own agriculture. And I know from meeting with Syrian delegations that this has often been on their list of things.

So again, I have no doubt that an agreement like this would lead very quickly into participation in their supply chain activities.

[Martha Harrison]

I would add transportation to that list as well.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you.

I have a few more questions, but Ed....

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to thank our guests today for appearing before us. It means a lot that you're here. You have an expertise that I think is compelling. You are absolutely boots on the ground, and that's very meaningful.

I say that respectfully in relation to some of our folks who either have not been there or have provided us experience without witnesses. We've had Americans who've provided us their perspective as it relates to the United States deals with Jordan, and while interesting, I take some comfort in the testimony I've heard from you because of your sense of the need to proceed with this.

What I feel I'm hearing from you is that—and I would never put words in your mouth, so let me ask you this as a question. I'll start with you, Mr. Hutton, if I can. We have a strategy from the government side, supported by most members opposite—general support for our free trade strategy—and we have identified Jordan as a key centrepiece for the Middle East. Do you believe that's the right strategy for us? And what is your sense of how that has the ability to expand our opportunities within the other, I'll say, member countries within the Middle East region?

Mr. Hutton.

[David Hutton]

Thank you.

Certainly I think Jordan is as good a place as any to start, and it happened quickly, on which, again, I compliment the government and those involved in the negotiation. It seems to have been relatively non-controversial as well. If you look at some of the other countries in the region, you're going to touch some hotter buttons, whatever they could be, shipbuilding or whatever.

I think, yes, this is a very good place to start, and the template that has been put forward—I repeat myself—is a model that can be used to just expand very rapidly, and the recommendation from this committee in such a strategy, quite honestly, would be most welcome by all of the Canadian exporters that I represent.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Perhaps I could direct this, then, to Ms. Harrison.

I'm sorry, Mr. Hutton, but you've said that this is relatively non-controversial, but there are those who might want to try to make it controversial. It seems that when we've had our American witnesses come through and they've talked in terms of the concerns they've had vis-à-vis the American deal with Jordan, their FTA, the issue of, for example, the exploitation of foreign workers seems to be a concern that they've put in place.

Ms. Harrison, with your experience, would that be an impediment for Canada to proceed with an FTA with full force and as expediently as possible? Would that be a concern to you?

[Martha Harrison]

Well, the rights of migrant workers and such, on a personal level, certainly are a concern to me. But I can say that this opportunity for Canada is one that we should seize. If the free trade agreement is implemented, it stands to reason that we then have the platform to speak with the Jordanian authorities and to address those very issues.

I have had the great pleasure of meeting a few times with the Ministry of Industry and Trade in Jordan. I can tell you that the minister is very keen on hearing both sides of the story on many issues and was able to very skilfully address concerns that Canadian businesses had during the Canada-Arab trade mission last year.

So I think we should take this platform. I don't see it as an impediment to moving forward in full force with this agreement.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Can I then ask, Mr. Hutton, is there anything within this deal that you see should impede Canada from proceeding as expeditiously as possible to implement this free trade agreement?

[David Hutton]

No, absolutely nothing.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

I'd like to thank our guests for their comments today. That means a lot to us.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Lee Richardson]

Thank you, Mr. Holder.

I think we have time for a couple more.

Monsieur Guimond.

[Claude Guimond, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning. As several of my colleagues have mentioned, it is very much a pleasure to welcome you and what you are saying is quite interesting. You have a very good knowledge of the issue.

We seem to be coming to the end of the examination of this bill, since we always have the same questions to ask. We might repeat some questions, but we will try as well to go a little bit further.

We talked earlier about workers' rights. On Monday, a witness told us about human rights. There seems to be some issues in this regard. Yet we are being told that the Jordanian government is making great strides.

Since you are familiar with this part of the world, this part of the continent, could you tell us a little bit more on the real willingness of the Jordanian government? What kind of partner are we negotiating with?

[Martha Harrison]

I can certainly speak to that for a few moments. Thank you.

I have been working very gladly with Queen Rania's organization, which is the Jordan River Foundation. It is an organization she established that works in conjunction with the federal government in Jordan. It looks particularly at assisting, analysing, and addressing any human rights concerns in the region. Their special focus is women in rural areas. The organization has been very active over the last several years in reaching out to women in rural areas and helping them develop micro-businesses. They are actually starting to trade now. They're shipping some of their goods across the ocean.

From my perspective, the Jordanian government looks at human rights issues head-on and does a very good job of dealing with them. The government itself, as well as the King and Queen, are very concerned that human rights be addressed and human rights obligations be acknowledged in the country. It has been a priority.

[David Hutton]

Certainly you as parliamentarians know that some countries are harder to govern than others, and there's no question that the countries in the Middle East have their challenges. But as Martha Harrison has said, you have in the leadership of Jordan exceptional people, and certainly in the role of Queen Rania as a spokesperson of that region and her country. One has to evaluate these things by the amount of good, as opposed to the amount of bad. An arrangement such as this is overwhelmingly on the positive side of the ledger.

Thank you.

[Claude Guimond, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

We know that the United States have already signed an agreement with Jordan. Knowing full well that our economy is closely linked to that of the United States, what can we do to regain the time that has been lost? What distinguishes us from the Americans in terms of the Jordanian market and those of the Near East or the Middle East?

[David Hutton]

America is a complicated friend and partner. Certainly they have, in their own right, gone out of their way to build a very complex network of trade agreements in the region. Egypt, Morocco, and others, as I mentioned in my remarks, are already active in Jordan. With our own trade relations and economies bound together, my view on policy is that we should be lock-step with the Americans. Wherever they are, we are. That would certainly include Mexico.

I was serving in Greece when the Mexicans negotiated a free trade agreement with the European Union. Literally the next day the Mexican ambassador, who is a close friend of mine, was promoting the links between Europe and Mexico. Volkswagen went in and put a plant there very quickly after that.

We have bound our economies together, and we must bind them together internationally or it will be to our very significant disadvantage.