International Trade Committee on Oct. 16th, 2012

[Jacqueline Sava]

It needs to be during the development stage. It's one thing if you tell your distributor to just figure it out and do the testing and come back.

Further to that, we need education for businesses that are looking at entering the Japanese market so that people don't hear what is published, which is that they value high quality, good standards, trust, and we have those same values so let's export to Japan. That's the story that gets trickled down to the business world. It's not necessarily startups and it's not medium-size businesses as ours. It's not as easy as that. It's people who have expertise or knowledge, people who can at least list by industry what the parameters are. That's to scare people away from doing it if it's not appropriate or if they don't have the resources. It's actual practical information.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

It's a problem for people who invested and then find themselves up against a brick wall.

[Jacqueline Sava]

Right, and it's not representing the country, in whole, as business people. It's resources here on the ground in the marketplace.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Okay, I think I understand where you are now.

Pablo, in terms of the wine industry, is there any reason that wine exports to Japan have dropped? You're basically looking at reciprocal trade, I expect, opening up a Japanese wine market here and moving our product to Japan. Why has the volume of product going to Japan dropped? I think you said 13% or 17%; I forget.

[Pablo Garrido]

Honestly, I wish I had the answer to that. From the documentation I saw in the reports, there was no one significant reason that leapt out at me.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

In terms of importing, the FTA certainly should help. WIth respect to the motion that went through the House, there still are considerable provincial regulatory hurdles. What impact do these have on your ability? You have the federal government on the one hand and the provincial and territorial governments on the other. What impact is that having? Are you trying to move wine beyond the Ontario market? I didn't even check where you're from.

[Pablo Garrido]

I'm from Toronto.

I haven't started moving outside the province. It's my understanding that Bill C-311 was meant, really, to encourage Canadian consumers and Canadian winemakers to connect and be able to purchase wine across provincial borders. It's my general understanding, and I don't pretend to be an economist, that because of international trade rules we can't treat Canadian products preferentially, so that eventually the same rule will apply to wines from all countries that are bottled in Canada.

I could potentially sell it to someone in Alberta. There is movement, and I assume it will be swift movement, afoot by the provincial bodies to ensure that they still can protect their territory as far as the duties and the markups that would be applied in their province are concerned.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Don't forget about Prince Edward Island. Many Japanese visit there in the summertime and they might like Japanese wine.

I'll leave some time, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Not much; you're just about out, but that's fine. Let's go with Mr. Shory.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for being here.

I heard the comment made that free trade agreements benefit small- and medium-sized industries. Of course, this government understands that fully, and that's why we have been opening new markets for small- and medium-sized entrepreneurs.

I was very impressed to hear, and you would have heard this also, the NDP members who spoke today specifically trying to show how strongly they support free trade agreements, whereas the record shows that they have been consistently anti-trade.

The committee will be travelling to Japan next week. What would your message be to the committee members who are travelling to Japan?

[Pablo Garrido]

The first one would be to travel to Yamanashi prefecture to visit some of the wineries. It is well worth the train ride from Tokyo. It's about two hours, and it's absolutely brilliant.

My real message would be to see the level of competition we are talking about. Some of the wine makers I represent are husband-and-wife teams who run their business out of the back...they hand-cork the bottles. This is competition that we needn't necessarily fear in a free trade and liberalized market.

[Jacqueline Sava]

I would say it would be to learn as much as you can about where you would find the regulatory variations between what's happening domestically and what's happening in the Japanese market, so that you'll know where to send companies, when they want to go into that market. There's a lot of business to be had for companies that don't have offices in Japan already, so it would be finding out where there are experts who are working there whom we can team up with and work with to get the resources we need.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I'm sure both of you would agree that opportunities will increase after the EPA is signed between these two countries. In your view, does time matter? Is it better to sign this agreement in a timely manner, as soon as possible basically, or does it not matter when it is signed?

[Jacqueline Sava]

To me what matters is what resources come along with signing the agreement. If the agreement comes with a commitment to support businesses as they build their business abroad, then the sooner the better. If it's an agreement that doesn't come with resources for small businesses or resources for business development or resources for building relationships and for building regulatory resources and research resources, then I'd prefer the resources in the bill. It's whichever one you can get first.

[Pablo Garrido]

For me, it would be sooner rather than later. As you heard, my business model involves some interesting math. and so for the long term I cannot afford to be patient about tariffs and duties being lowered.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I'll pass to Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

I want to welcome our guests. I really want, as has been said, to applaud your entrepreneurial spirit. It gives me some comfort that younger people are looking at this and showing this kind of enthusiasm, and I salute you.

I must admit, today's meeting feels a little bit like an episode of Dragons' Den.

[Chris Wilkinson]

We've been there and done that—

[A voice]

—twice.

[Chris Wilkinson]

—and they don't know anything about the Japanese experience either.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

No, they wouldn't. But I have a little advice, if I might, Ms. Wilkinson.

It is interesting that you said the Canadian trade commissioners didn't give you quite the direction you were looking for. I suspect that if you wrote to the head of the Canadian Trade Commissioner Service, and we know who that is, and said that you were referred by the international trade committee to ask for advice, you might get a stronger answer. If you'd like that as a lead-in, we'd be happy to give it to you.

I would also suggest speaking to the president of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters—

[Jacqueline Sava]

I've been there.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

This is a little networking lesson. You go to the head and you refer to this committee.

[Jacqueline Sava]

Dragons' Den works as a reference as well.