Evidence of meeting #56 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was areas.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
In one of the reports, Mr. Davies alluded to infrastructure opportunities of up to a trillion dollars by 2017. That would be a great opportunity for Canadian engineering infrastructure.
I haven't been there, but I've heard from other people that there is an issue of treatment of water and waste water. In the environmental aspect of negotiations, will that be a side agreement, as well as labour and the environment?
Deputy Director, Services Trade Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I think the areas you've just identified are areas that fall more under the purview of services negotiations. Environmental services is another one of the areas that we've identified where we have tremendous export potential. Our exporters are very sophisticated in this area. Not only in seeking to enter India, but in practically any negotiation that we have around the world right now, environmental services are key. Waste management is one of the opportunities in India.
You mentioned transportation and infrastructure. Again, I think you've hit the hammer on the head of a number of our key services export interests. Again, those are areas that we would be negotiating with India in terms of market access when we get to that stage of negotiations.
As Don mentioned, we're currently in the first phase of negotiations, which is trying to get agreement on the modalities or the structure for the negotiations. After that has been dealt with, we would move onto the market access. We would be making requests of India in areas of export interest to us. They would do the same with us, and then we'd actually be making offers.
Conservative
Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
Thank you very much to the witnesses for coming today.
Mr. Stephenson, you made an interesting comment about agriculture and how significant it is in terms of security. I think I missed the number, but a very high number of people are involved in that industy in India, making them sensitive to agriculture. I'm assuming that you meant sensitive to agriculture in terms of what they might be importing.
Do you see the agriculture industry not only as an export for Canada as products—so you would be talking about lentils and some of the larger industry ones, such as beef, maybe—but are you also talking about technology that they would be looking for as they look at the numbers? When we talk to people in China, for example, about the number of people who were involved in agriculture and their influx away from the rural areas into the urban areas, technology, innovation, and science and research tend to move that industry ahead. Is that an area you're talking about?
Chief Trade Negotiator, Canada-India Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes. I guess this is also Shendra's area in large measure, but there will continue to be opportunities—in fact, we hope expanded opportunities—for Canadian exports of agricultural products, including the value-added, the processed food products. But I think it's fair to say that the biggest opportunity in India in the agricultural sector is in investment and in bringing Canadian technology to the challenge of agricultural production in India.
One of the ministers that my minister, Minister Fast, met in India last year—I believe it was Minister Sharma, the Minister of Commerce—indicated that something like 40% to 60% of food spoils in India before it reaches a consumer. One of the opportunities, then, for Canadian investors with the know-how that very few countries on the planet have more abundantly than Canada, would be in helping them build their food handling system, including their cold chain facilities, and in developing value-added food processing in India.
Very recently, India opened multi-brand retail for investment by foreign firms, which means that the huge multinational firms—the Carrefours, the Walmarts—will be establishing increasingly in India. The Reliance corporation in India, one of the huge mega-firms, is planning to spend billions of dollars creating mini-marts and retail sales that provide tremendous opportunity to fill shelf space with product, both from Canada and through investment in India.
Conservative
Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
One of the things you also mentioned in passing is that in terms of relationships—we've been told this time and again, and I think it's important for Canada—Canada is recognized around the world, I believe, in many areas of what we produce and what we do in research, for having quality products. I think also of how important building relationships is in terms of how we have historically dealt with other countries in trade agreements.
Does India see this as important? How do we brand Canada to the Indian population? We're a small population of 34 million. They increase by that population over a weekend.
Conservative
Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
So how do we brand Canada, this large country with a small population, to make them understand and know what we actually have to offer?
Chief Trade Negotiator, Canada-India Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I think you need a better witness than I to try to address such a large question. Maybe a really good place to start would be our High Commissioner to India, Stewart Beck, who has been spending the last two years trying to figure out the answer to that question.
Our brand is, I would say, weak in India, because they have so many other suitors, and because we're far away and we're more or less the expensive option. When we talk about the Indian market, by the way, and branding ourselves in the Indian market, we tend to say that like it's one market. India is not one market; it is many markets. There are very strong regional differences, and one thing about trying to address the Indian market correctly is to understand the regional differences and the fact that you have to adapt your approach to the different markets.
Beyond that, I think we have to use our strengths—the things they know us for—including the quality of our products and technology. That, I think, is well known in India, but it's a very crowded marketplace. It's very difficult to brand.
NDP
Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC
My first question is for Mr. Santerre.
Did India sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty? I would just like that clarified please.
Director, South, Southeast Asia and Oceania Commercial Relations, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
No, I don't believe so.
NDP
Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC
Thank you.
According to the Canada-India Joint Study Group Report, despite differing points of views on trade and labour, and trade and the environment, Canada and India have agreed to continue to discuss those issues as they progress toward a bilateral CEPA.
What are those differing views? Has progress been made in those discussions? Can we expect an eventual agreement to include chapters on labour and the environment, in particular?
Chief Trade Negotiator, Canada-India Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
India has always been resistant to the idea of including labour and environmental measures in an international trade agreement. It does not want to accept a direct link between its obligations and trade disciplines regarding international standards in working conditions and environmental protection, which it even signed.
Discussions are ongoing. Canada's approach, as you explained, is to include measures in an annex to the free trade agreement. The annex would contain a statement whereby both countries confirm their intentions to respect international standards. Negotiations are under way. I cannot say with confidence what the outcome will be.
NDP
Chief Trade Negotiator, Canada-India Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
That is Canada's usual model.
NDP
Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC
You piqued my interest when you were talking about India's priorities. You mentioned food security, energy security and infrastructure, but you also mentioned education. I am keen to hear a bit more about that. What opportunities could Canada offer India in that regard? Which companies or organizations could benefit, in particular?
Chief Trade Negotiator, Canada-India Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
First off, keep in mind that Canada's approach is to exclude public education, public health, culture and social programs from its free trade agreements. That policy stands as part of my mandate in the negotiations with India, as well.
That said, Canada's colleges and universities are extremely interested in the Indian market. Rarely have I gone to India without accidentally running into one of our university or college presidents looking to bring Indian students to Canada or to build partnerships in research and program delivery. They are known as 2 + 2 programs, meaning programs offered by both institutions. After spending two years studying in Canada and two years studying in India, students would receive a degree conferred by both institutions.
NDP
Chief Trade Negotiator, Canada-India Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
Yes.
I wasn't told of any barriers specific to this type of partnership that I could try to remedy in our current talks. From the outset, our position excludes education, and as far as I know, there aren't any related barriers that need to be raised in our negotiations.
Because education is a provincial responsibility, I consulted with the provinces, as well as the major national associations of universities and colleges. They said they saw no barriers that I should attempt to remedy in the negotiations.
NDP
Annick Papillon NDP Québec, QC
For example, you mentioned the idea that some of our technologies and minds could help to fix problems. That might be one way for us to set ourselves apart on the international stage, to explore a promising avenue.
In fact, we need to consider the implications of limiting talks to the export of certain items without any added value, especially in light of the skilled labour shortage we have on our hands in Canada. If we then turn around and create primary sector opportunities only for India, I would have trouble seeing how we could also set ourselves apart in terms of what a highly developed country has to offer.
Chief Trade Negotiator, Canada-India Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
I agree.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Thank you very much.
We have one more question and answer session in this round, and we have three Conservatives who have said they want one question each to take up that five minutes. I have to see this.
Mr. Cannan, you'll start, and then we'll have Mr. Holder and Mr. Shory. You'll each have one question.