International Trade Committee on Nov. 27th, 2012

[Luc Santerre]

We currently have about 40 trade staff distributed across India in eight offices. We are in New Delhi, the capital city, at the Canadian High Commission, and in Mumbai, the business centre of India. We are in Chandigarh, with a smaller trade office, and in Ahmedabad in the state of Gujarat, Calcutta, and Hyderabad. We also have a consulate in Chennai. When the Prime Minister was there, we opened a consulate in Bangalore, where we already had a trade office, but we've upgraded it to consulate status.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

Earlier, Don, you said that Indian investment doesn't show up in the official numbers.

A number of us were in Japan, and I think we probably all were surprised when we met the mining industry and they gave us a map of the various locations in Canada where they have mines and investments. We were quite surprised by the amount of investment they have.

Is there any way of getting a handle on those numbers?

[Don Stephenson]

Well, I think some of the more informal sources, including the information collected by our High Commission in India, who are on the ground and who can see Canadian investment on the ground in India, and who can reconcile our export of investment data against the Indian import data...that comes a little closer, but it's an imperfect science.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

That's just a point to know. We're not against investment in Canada, nor are we against investment in India, but we need to protect investors on both sides, for sure, without giving up our sovereignty.

Last September, Policy Options published an article about Canada's main exports to our five major Asian trading partners. Our major exports to the five of them were coal, seeds, pulp, wood, mineral fuels, oils, pork, vegetables, paper, and machinery. On the other hand, we import from those same countries automobiles and parts, electronics, appliances, and apparel. Some of those are from India as well.

The problem I see with those commodities is that we're still very much seen as a supplier of raw materials, or semi-refined materials at best. We're still hewers of wood and drawers of water to a great extent, and we do not seem to be adding value in Canada.

As Marc-André whispered in my ear earlier, an accountant in India is often paid around $15,000. Compare—

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I'll not repeat that comment. It might get you in trouble.

Look at the price for accountants here. I know of businesses now—farming or shipping—that send their numbers to India to be processed and get them back the same day.

But my worry is that we're reducing our middle class in this country. Because we're providers of raw materials, we're pushing the whole wage structure down. How do we get around that? How do we add value in a way such that we enhance the economy in our own country and the salary numbers? We have to increase salary numbers.

[Don Stephenson]

First of all, with respect to the imports that we receive from the explosive growth economies, the number I'm familiar with is for China, and China has become the manufacturing centre for the world. But I saw a report recently that indicated that 55% of China's exports in manufactured goods are from foreign companies established in China to export, so the benefit of that trade goes to foreign firms, including Canadian and American firms. You need to kind of unpack the numbers a little bit to know what's going on in a highly connected global economy.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I don't want to interrupt you, Don, but I do have to make this point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

That's the end of your time. Sorry, Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

We're protecting capital and not labour—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Hello? Hello?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

—and that's the problem.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

You're done, Mr. Easter. Sorry—

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

We have to get around that issue because we have to enhance labour.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

That was more of a political statement, so I'm very pleased that you would be able to catch the political spin and answer it appropriately. I have one question as we close this, just before we let you go.

At the very beginning of the meeting, you mentioned that the interest is in food security as well as energy security, but we didn't get into what energy security. Would that come from the west coast? Are we talking about LNG and oil and/or coal? Which of those three would be the most likely targets for India?

[Don Stephenson]

I'm afraid I have to answer yes: it would be in all forms of energy. It would be in LNG, and perhaps not just off the west coast, but off the east coast potentially as well. It would be in coal. It would be in renewable sources of energy. In all of these categories, including our hydro technology, India has tremendous needs, and it's right across the board.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to the department for coming. We appreciate that very much.

I don't know if we really need to suspend.

Mr. Easter, you have a motion. Do you want to leave it for now? We have bells at 5:15 p.m. and that doesn't give us a lot of time.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

The motion should only take a minute, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Okay. We will suspend.

[Proceedings continue in camera]