International Trade Committee on Nov. 27th, 2012

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Short snappers: be quick.

Mr. Stephenson, last week we met here with the Canadian Tourism Commission. What's the issue with the global commerce strategy? Minister Fast talked about using our trade agreements for tourist opportunities. He talked about 25 million wealthy people, plus the other millions who are in India, in terms of air access. Is that an issue? He talked about tourism opportunities for Canadians as part of our brand marketing to bring Indian visitors to Canada.

[Don Stephenson]

First of all, with respect to air links, they are not part of the CEPA negotiations. They are negotiated separately by Canada's chief air negotiator. Perhaps the committee could invite him to speak to the issue of links between Canada and India. I often hear from Canadian businesses that one of the things that would help a lot, in terms of developing the market, is more direct links with India.

Would you speak with respect to tourism services, Shendra?

[Shendra Melia]

Again, tourism services is one of the areas in which we export to India. It's one of our largest services export interests. We have a large population that travels to India to consume those services. I'd say that travel services are at the top of one of our export services, whereas for India it's the reverse. A lot fewer Indians come to Canada to consume travel services. It's certainly one of those factors that we would take into consideration when we're constructing what our requests and offers would be for India in terms of market access interests and exchanges.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much.

Devinder, we'll go on to you.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I want to talk a little about “Brand Canada”, because I know that not too many people in India knew about Canada, but definitely, with the efforts of this government, I would say, and the high commission and trade commissioner expansion in India, it has changed a lot, whether it was, say, the appointment of the Bollywood actor as tourism ambassador for Canada to India, or the Canadian Bollywood industry having their annual award ceremonies here in Toronto, or encouraging India to have its Year of India in Canada last year, when they organized so many events here.

Canada is definitely very well known in certain areas. For example, Mumbai is the business hub of India. Everybody knows about Canada now.

Rather than mentioning all the benefits—you mentioned them and everybody mentioned them—I will ask a question. What would be the downside if we did not pursue this agreement? Would there be a great loss of opportunity for Canadian businesses and Canadian families or would it be business as usual?

[Don Stephenson]

Well, I think that if we do not pursue this opportunity, it's pretty clear that others will and that we will lose ground. We will lose competitiveness to our trading partners. In that sense, I think it's tremendously important, particularly given the fact that Canada needs to diversity its markets in the world. If you want to diversify markets, you have to go to where the explosive growth is happening, and that's India, China, and a few other markets.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Mr. Stephenson, you said that India has a lot of suitors. It makes me wonder where the United States is in their interests in India, which then leads me to wonder what the status is of our process of consultation with their subnational governments.

In consideration of those comments, you indicated there are challenges in dealing with India being far away, yet Japan is very high on our list and being treated very fairly, so I'm trying to understand that inconsistency.

That's a big question, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

You have time for an answer.

[Don Stephenson]

I'm still working on the question.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Don Stephenson]

Well, India is certainly farther than Japan. In terms of infrastructure for goods, such as port facilities and domestic transportation, Japan is a lot less challenging than India. Certainly if you're trying to export a perishable good to India, there are tremendous challenges, going back to cold storage, etc. I don't know where else to go with the question.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

There are other parts to that question, Chair. One was on India's suitors and where the U.S. is, and the other was on the status of communication with the subnationals.

[Don Stephenson]

With respect to how we communicate with our subnational governments, I indicated earlier that we have a process that provides for very close consultation with the provinces. I can tell you, from my exchanges with them, that they feel very comfortable with the process we have in place with respect to this negotiation.

With respect to the United States, they are not in the process of negotiating a free trade agreement with India at this time. They engage more in bilateral discussions on specific issues, very often through a summit type of process. That's the approach they have taken.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Merrifield]

Very good.

Now we have another couple of questions here.

We'll go with Mr. Davies and then Mr. Easter.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to follow up on something. I'm not understanding, Mr. Santerre, exactly what happened with the uranium issue. I understand that Canada for a long time has been pushing to have Canadian verification of the uranium we sell to India, to ensure that uranium we sell to India is not directly or indirectly diverted to nuclear weapons. I know that India had been resisting that for a long time. I think that instead they were pointing to other international verification bodies.

What was the final outcome of that? Who's verifying? Are Canadians verifying that the uranium we sell to India is not directly or indirectly going to nuclear weapons? If not, who is?

[Luc Santerre]

The government provides both parties with the information they need to ensure them with the knowledge of what the equipment is being used for. As to who provides that verification, I don't know the details, but I am assured that we will have reliable information out of this. The negotiations are concluded, but the administrative arrangements are not yet signed.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

When you do find out who is the verifier of that information, would it be possible to provide that information to the committee?

[Luc Santerre]

I can ask that the information be provided to the committee, yes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

I was going to move to the environment. I must say that I'm a little bit concerned by the description of India's position that they don't generally like to put environmental or labour standards in trade agreements.

I think the government has always responded to our concerns in that area by saying that we have side agreements on environment and labour—maybe with the pluses and minuses of that—but what is our position on that, Mr. Stephenson? Would we sign an agreement with India that does not have an agreement on environmental and labour standards?

[Don Stephenson]

It will be up to ministers to decide what agreement they would be prepared to sign for Canada, but my mandate is to seek a side agreement on the respect for international standards in environmental protection. Recognizing India's position on the matter....

And by the way, the Indian position is not to “make an effort” to improve the environment for their people; they are in fact signatories to many of the same environmental protection agreements, the international standards, that Canada has signed, and they make an effort within their means to enforce and promote those agreements.

It's the linkage to trade disciplines that they have traditionally resisted, for reasons that you'd have to ask India about.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Have we asked the Indians that? I'll tell you why—

[Don Stephenson]

Yes, we are pursuing our mandate, which is to—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Because our linkage is quite clear. I've read our side agreements, and they say that both countries agree that they will not lower their environmental or labour standards in order to increase investment or trade. You couldn't get a clearer link than that. Anyway, I think I have your answer on that.

I want to move to IP and patent protection. Is Canada seeking any extension of patent protection that would be over and above what it already has for patent protection of pharmaceuticals?

[Don Stephenson]

No, not at this time. We are still pursuing the issue of whether or not intellectual property measures and obligations would form part of the CEPA negotiations.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

My final question is on trade offices and commissioners.

We got back from Japan and found out that Canada had closed its consulate and trade commissioner offices in Osaka. We've heard from a wide variety of witnesses that this is not helpful if the purpose is to try to encourage trade.

I'm just wondering what the position is in India in terms of Canada's presence of having trade commissioners and trade offices on the ground. If you don't have that information here, I wonder if you could send it to the committee. I'd like to know where our trade commission offices are, how many commissioners we have, and what's slated to happen in the future.