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Evidence of meeting #72 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was colombia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #72 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was colombia.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Yes, okay.
I remember that witness, and there was no baseline. I think you have a valid point there.
Thank you, Chair.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses.
I want to follow up with Mr. Easter.
I've been on the trade committee for over seven years, and I've had a chance to go to Colombia. I'm very concerned about the human rights situation of all our trade agreements, and I think there's been some positive progress.
I'm a member of a rotary club in my Kelowna—Lake Country riding, where on Friday morning we had a Colombian as a guest. I was speaking with her and talking about some of the positives. She was very bullish on President Uribe. He was very controversial in the minds of many people there. He made a lot of changes, I think for the better, for their country.
If you could, Ms. Katz, share a little with our committee your perspective on the Canada-Jordan Free Trade Agreement that we passed as a government.
4:15 p.m.
Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation
I really don't know much about that one. We really focus on the Americas.
My understanding is that the Jordan agreement doesn't have some of the most negative aspects. I believe there's no investment chapter in the Jordan agreement, which would be our major critique.
But I really can't speak about the Jordan agreement. I'm sorry.
4:15 p.m.
Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation
I would like to refer to your comment about Uribe, because he's pretty much discredited in Colombia. He's been linked to drug traffickers. He's opposed to many of the policies of the current government, in terms of negotiating a peace settlement with the FARC. These negotiations are taking place, and he's staunchly against them. He's really been identified with the most right-wing, recalcitrant landowners in Colombia, who are opposed to any kind of progressive change in the country.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Okay. Your sentiments have been clearly expressed.
Is there a free trade agreement that you would support or have supported?
4:15 p.m.
Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation
I worked at the Canadian Labour Congress for many years, and whenever we came to this committee that question was asked. The answer was always the Canada-U.S. Auto Pact.
The Canada-U.S. Auto Pact was the kind of free trade agreement.... The Canadian Council for International Co-operation is not against trade. Nowhere in my presentation do we say there should be no international trade. What we're saying is we should carry out international trade with the perspective of improving the life of—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
I'm just wondering if there is a trade agreement other than the Auto Pact. That's the only one you've—
4:15 p.m.
Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation
The modern free trade agreements that contain very strong protection for investments, the kind of thing they're trying to negotiate in the TPP, we absolutely do not accept.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation
No.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
I'll share my time with the hardest-working parliamentary secretary to the Minister of International Trade, Mr. Keddy.
Thank you.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
That's going to be a tough act to follow.
Mr. Chairman, thank you, and welcome to our witnesses.
There's been some good discussion here.
I have a point of clarification, maybe for Ms. Katz. Could you provide us with some information to back up your comments? I quickly googled Mexico, average wage, and Chinese average wages. You stated that Mexican average wages are lower than Chinese average wages. Right now—
4:15 p.m.
Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation
No, hourly wages, I think I said.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Right now Mexican average wages are $12,000 to $13,000 U.S. a year. Chinese average wages, in Beijing, which is the highest-paid area in China, are $6,800 U.S.
So if you could you provide some backup on that, it would be appreciated.
4:20 p.m.
Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation
I got that data from an article in Reuters. It was based on a study by...I'll provide you with that. I don't have it right here with me at this time, but I will provide that.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Google can be wrong as often as it's right.
4:20 p.m.
Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation
Google Mexican wages—Mexican wages lower than Chinese—and see what you come up with.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
I have another question. You mentioned Colombia, and for those of us who were on committee last time who travelled to Colombia, Colombia is a nation that is coming out of civil war and turmoil; it was not safe to travel there.
I think you would have to agree, regardless of any bias you may or may not have against Uribe, that Colombia today is safer than it was three years ago, certainly five years ago or ten years ago. And I have to say the thing I was amazed at, when we were in Colombia, was the makeup of Uribe's government. He had former members who had been captured and incarcerated for years by the FARC guerillas and had escaped. He had ex-justices. He had socialists. He had communists. He had right-wing large “C” conservatives. All these people were sitting in his cabinet. Here's a president who moves the country ahead remarkably under dire, difficult circumstances.
Today you can drive from Bogotá to the coast in Colombia, and when we were there six or seven years ago, whatever it was, you could not do that unless you had armed guards. So that's not just me saying it; Colombians are saying that today.
It's a statement, Mr. Chair. That's all.
But on the pork, you mentioned a couple of issues and I want to try to drill into them. I know we're running out of time, but the issue is this. We have parameters in our agreements that we have now with Chile, Colombia, Peru, and Mexico. Those parameters are very difficult to renegotiate unless you open up the entire agreement. So by going to this Pacific Alliance and becoming a member of the Pacific Alliance, which will be the ninth largest trading bloc in the world, we'll have another opportunity to put those issues back on the table.
Is that the way the Canadian Pork Council looks at that, or do you see it as even more difficult to put them back on the table?
4:20 p.m.
Director, Latin America and Government Programs Management, Canada Pork International
That's the way we look at it, given that we could enhance trade by a superior, a higher, agreement with this bloc. Yes, definitely, it's something we look at that way.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative