Evidence of meeting #72 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was colombia.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

César Urias  Director, Latin America and Government Programs Management, Canada Pork International
Sheila Katz  Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation
Martin Charron  Vice-President, Market Access and Trade Development, Canada Pork International
Brittany Lambert  Coordinator, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

I'd like to call the meeting to order. I want to thank our witnesses for coming forward.

We have one hour of study on the benefits to Canada of joining the Pacific Alliance as a full member. We have with us witnesses from Canada Pork International, Mr. Urias; and from the Canadian Council of International Co-operation, Ms. Katz. If you have people accompanying you, you can introduce them when you speak.

Before we get into any questions on the agenda, I will inform the committee that we have had notification from the minister, and the minister will be attending on May 6 to deal with estimates.

Mr. Easter, did you have a question on the agenda?

April 22nd, 2013 / 3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Yes. I notice from the agenda that we're only going until 5 o'clock. I assume that's as a result of votes.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

No. We'll then go in camera and do some committee business. We have some motions we have to deal with.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Is that at 5 o'clock?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

At 4:30 p.m., I'm sorry.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

But that only takes from 4:30 p.m. to 5 p.m.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Yes, 4:30 p.m. to 5 p.m., because we think we'll be done in that time period.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Okay.

On the in camera session, is there anything other than motions that we're discussing that requires in camera? I can't understand why the committee would not debate a motion as simple as doing a TPP study, why the Conservatives would want to place it in secret. Isn't that something the public should be aware of, the various positions of the parties, when we're debating such a motion?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

It'll be committee business and committee business is done this way. That's been the history, and we'll continue that way.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

No, no, Mr. Chair, that's not the history of committees. They used to be debated in public—

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

That's the history of this committee.

Mr. Urias, the floor is yours, sir.

3:35 p.m.

César Urias Director, Latin America and Government Programs Management, Canada Pork International

Thank you.

I will start with my presentation on the Pacific Alliance. I'm here today with Martin Charron, the vice-president of Canada Pork International and the director for Asia, Africa, and Europe. I am in charge of Latin American markets and the Caribbean.

Canada Pork International, CPI, is the export market development agency for the Canadian pork industry. CPI is a joint initiative of the Canadian Pork Council and the Canadian Meat Council.

CPI membership includes national and provincial associations of hog producers as well as federally registered pork packing and processing establishments and trading companies. Combined, CPI members represent nearly 99% of the Canadian pork export industry.

This industry has been serving international markets for more than 20 years, and currently reaches clients and consumers in more than 100 countries. This said, Canadian pork exports account for 20% of today’s world pork trade. Statistical information reports that in 2012, 1.189 million tonnes of Canadian pork were sold worldwide. This was valued at $3.1 billion.

In the last four years, Canadian pork exports have registered record years in volume, time after time. One of the reasons for the reliable development of the export business has been the establishment of free trade agreements with strategic partners. In addition, country-based market development strategies related to pork meat exports rely heavily on preferential access conditions such as reduced and/or eliminated tariff rates and unrestricted access in terms of veterinary and sanitary restrictions and regulations.

In regard to the four members of the Pacific Alliance, Canada currently holds bilateral free trade agreements with each member. The FTA with Mexico as part of NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement, was brought into force on January 1, 1994. The FTA with Chile was brought into force on July 5, 1997. Finally, the FTAs with Peru and Colombia were brought into force on August 1, 2009, and August 15, 2011, respectively.

The FTAs with Mexico and Chile have both evolved to the point where there are no longer custom duties applicable to Canadian pork exports to these markets. However, in the case of Colombia, applicable duties in 2013 are 12% for a quota of 5,500 metric tonnes of frozen pork and value-added items.

In the case of Peru, applicable duties will remain at 25% for five more years before entering year 11 of the FTA, when the base rate will begin its reduction in seven equal stages during seven years.

In 2012 Canada exported to Mexico 60,940 tonnes of product, valued at $82 million; 7,510 tonnes, valued at $16 million, to Colombia; 3,872 tonnes, valued at $9 million, to Chile; and only 78 tonnes, valued at $145,268, to Peru.

CPI has established a market classification for promotional purposes. The criteria for classification are based on the volumes exported to these export markets and on the opportunity to develop promotional initiatives geared to improve product distribution in specific segments. Consequently, Mexico is considered as a priority market category A, whereas Colombia and Chile are considered category B. Peru falls behind in category C.

In recent years, CPI has been able to develop promotional initiatives targeting the hotel and restaurant industry, the retail sector, and the further meat processing industry in all of these markets. The results have been astonishing, primarily in the case of Colombia, where exports grew by 138% just in the last year.

In Mexico, Canada has been able to maintain market share at 8% in a market mostly dominated by U.S. pork imports.

For Chile, Canadian pork exporters are looking to develop the long-term lucrative business of pork items for the retail sector.

Furthermore, access to these markets has benefited by sanitary and veterinary agreements. The Canadian pork slaughtering, packing, and processing industry is privileged to be granted with something that's called in the industry “system approval”, which refers to the fact that all meat establishments are eligible to export pork products and byproducts. However, eligible establishments are not automatically approved by the foreign country. There is a specific protocol in place for each market. This said, there are still opportunities to improve trade conditions for Canadian pork meat products.

Therefore, CPI would like to request the following should Canada become a member of the Pacific Alliance.

First, the quota management in Colombia for Canadian pork products should be simplified in order to enhance trade to this market.

Second, the quota for Canadian pork products should be drastically increased and the existing tariff rate should be reduced in Peru.

Third, the trichinella treatment should be removed as an export requirement for pork exports to Colombia and Peru, thus permitting exports of chilled pork products to these markets.

Obtaining the above would be the first step in the right way for continental trade integration among countries with similar economic and trade policies. Canada could be favoured with a leading role in the integration of these countries through ways of cooperation and thus gain access to preferential agreements with countries in the Asia-Pacific region, highly relevant for the Canadian pork exporting industry.

Finally, the Canadian pork industry is currently experiencing difficult times, given the always changing conditions in the international markets. The latest changes in Russia, China, Japan, and other markets demand a stronger partnership with countries in the Asia-Pacific region. As a result, Canada Pork International strongly supports Canada’s membership to the Pacific Alliance.

The support provided by the Canadian government in opening export markets and maintaining access to them is crucial for the Canadian pork industry. This support is consistently offered by officials in Ottawa as well as through the trade commissioners posted in our embassies abroad. The support of the Canadian government is also reflected through the provision of high-quality and timely marketing intelligence and statistics, which help the industry develop market strategies and measurement performance.

We thank you for this time. We look forward to answering any questions you may have in regard to this brief presentation.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

You have Mr. Charron with you. I should have introduced him. He'll be available for questions and answers. He's the vice-president of marketing access and trade development.

We can now move to the Canadian Council for International Co-operation.

Ms. Katz, the floor is yours. If you could introduce Ms. Lambert, that would be great.

3:40 p.m.

Sheila Katz Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation

Thank you.

I'm Sheila Katz, representing the Canadian Council for International Co-operation. Brittany Lambert is a colleague. She is the coordinator of the Americas Policy Group of the council.

As always, I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today on behalf of the Canadian Council for International Co-operation. For those of you who don't know, the CCIC is a coalition of close to a hundred Canadian voluntary sector organizations working globally to achieve sustainable human development. The Americas Policy Group, APG, is a working group of the CCIC. Its mandate is to provide coordinated policy positions on Canadian foreign policy towards Latin America. My testimony today is therefore representative of a broad group of organizations and their partners on the ground in Latin America. I personally have 30 years of experience of observing and participating in Latin American processes and situations and history from a civil society perspective.

I want to speak to you today about the intersection of the Pacific Alliance—and Canada's joining it or not—with Canada's strategy for the Americas, and the implications for Canada's ability to honour its human rights commitments in this context. I refer also to how joining the Pacific Alliance, or not, might help or hinder Canada's Americas policy within the region as a whole.

I'm going to refer to something that probably not many of your witnesses have referred to, and that is human rights and democracy.

On announcing Canada's re-engagement in the Americas in 2007, the Prime Minister stated:

We are a country of the Americas.... Re-engagement in our hemisphere is a critical international priority for our Government. Canada is committed to playing a bigger role in the Americas and to doing so for the long term.

Canada's three key objectives announced at that time for the Americas were, first, to strengthen and promote Canada’s foundational values of freedom, democracy, human rights, and the rule of law; second, to build strong sustainable economies through increased trade and investment; and third, to meet new security challenges as well as natural disasters and health pandemics.

On reviewing the implementation of the Americas strategy in 2012, the CCIC observed that the record of action to date has been narrowly focused on free trade agreements and the protection of corporate interests and investments at the expense of deep engagement on such important issues as development, security, corporate accountability, democratic governance, and human rights.

Allow me to give you a few examples.

The Americas Policy Group has recommended that Canada refrain from concluding free trade agreements with countries that have poor democratic governance and human rights records. Yet in 2008 Canada signed a free trade agreement with Colombia, the country with the worst human rights record in the hemisphere. There were, and continue to be, legitimate reasons to fear that an FTA would exacerbate the already fragile human rights situation in Colombia. Yet Canada went ahead with the deal, sidestepping this very committee's recommendations to not proceed with the agreement until an independent human rights impact assessment had been conducted. Instead, it implemented a side agreement requiring each government to report on their own actions every year after the implementation of the FTA, a process that so far has failed to produce serious monitoring and accountability.

The second example was Canada's eager recognition of a president who came to power in a military coup in Honduras in 2009. This is another example of Canada prioritizing the trade pillar of its Americas strategy above the rest. Since the coup, hundreds of regime opponents have been intimidated, arbitrarily arrested, disappeared, tortured, and killed. The Americas Policy Group is concerned that Canada has validated this regime by adopting a business-as-usual approach and signing a free trade agreement with Honduras in spite of its human rights record.

In spite of Canada's stated commitment to human rights and good governance, it seems that the real driving force behind our free trade agreements is the provision of strong, enforceable rules to protect the rights of investors. This is done by replicating the model of NAFTA's investment chapter, which gives private companies the ability to sue national governments for actions that might impinge on their profits or potential profits.

In many cases, these investor protections clash with the human rights of citizens, such as the right to health, clean water, clean air, and freedom of expression. In the framework of these agreements, the scope of government to enact public policies for the common good is severely curtailed if these policies affect the profit or property of a private company. As such, it results in putting a chill on legislators, who are less willing to legislate for the public good, knowing they may be challenged by private companies.

When these challenges occur, the recourse for companies is to sue the government, not in a national court, but in a transnational body or a panel of experts operating in secret. However, the states are then expected to enforce the decisions of the secret panel on taxpayers and citizens. This clearly favours the interests of transnational corporations over the democratic rights of nations and is a clear challenge to democracy.

Driven by corporate interests in mining, finance, and other sectors, policy-makers in Ottawa, closely allied with Washington, attempted to extend the NAFTA model to the entire hemisphere in the free trade area of the Americas in the mid-1990s, pushing for deeper corporate penetration in the hemisphere via a favourable investment regime and other free market reforms. Critics quickly pointed out that this would establish an international regulatory regime that would lock in place the last two decades of structural adjustment policies in the region, creating opportunities for Canadian business interests, but giving little consideration to human rights, ecological costs, poverty reduction, or social development. It also would have opened the door for commercialization of such social programs as health care, education, provision of water, and the like.

As the FTAA negotiations lurched ahead, it became clear that the rhetoric of democracy, human rights, social justice, and shared prosperity coming from Ottawa and Washington sounded good, but they were in fact empty promises. The FTAA was defeated in 2005, in an effort by the newly elected socially progressive governments in the south, led by Brazil and its partners, leaving Canada and the U.S. isolated as its sole proponents. Although the FTAA was dead, both Washington and Ottawa remained strongly committed to its neo-liberal, free market fundamentals, and shifted strategies to promote the same model through free trade agreements and investment protections at the subregional and bilateral levels.

The isolation of Washington and Ottawa, which emerged from the FTAA failure, has deepened. The Latin American and Caribbean states have come together to seek a new destiny for the region through the formation of new institutional groups, such as UNASUR, the Union of South American Nations, and CELAC, the Community of Latin American and Caribbean States, to which neither the United States nor Canada have been invited. Has anybody asked why?

I would like to make a few comments about the specific case of Mexico, since Mexico is the largest of the Pacific Alliance economies and has had a longer and deeper relationship on free trade with Canada and the United States through NAFTA.

NAFTA proponents promised technology and capital that would modernize the Mexican economy, leading to industrialization and increased productivity and competitiveness. Wages would rise, creating economic alternatives to involvement in the drug trade, and would slow migration to the United States, so they said.

Now, 20 years later, official statistics show that between 2006 and 2010, more than 12 million Mexicans joined the ranks of the impoverished, causing the poverty level to jump to 51.3% of the population. It is perhaps most striking that according to new research by Bank of America Merrill Lynch, Mexico's hourly wages are now about a fifth lower than China's hourly wages. Ten years ago, they were three times higher.

Writing in The Miami Herald last month, Andres Oppenheimer, a well-known journalist, made the observation that “Everybody is upbeat on Mexico – except Mexicans.”

Furthermore, an unintended consequence or collateral damage of NAFTA in North America, through Mexico, is that it has aided significantly in the expansion of illicit markets, primarily in the drug sector.

Phil Jordan, the former director of DEA's El Paso Intelligence Center, in 1997, remarked that NAFTA served as a “godsend” to drug trafficking, “the best thing that happened to product distribution since Nike signed up Michael Jordan”. This is the DEA speaking.

Similar shocking conclusions were drawn in the 1999 study called The Illicit Global Economy and State Power, documenting the impact of Mexico’s market reforms on the illicit drug trade. One of these was that the increased trade flows between Colombia, Mexico, and the United States brought about by trade liberalization provided the necessary cover for increased drug trafficking. This situation took advantage of the privatization of companies and services, the deregulation of the trucking industry, foreign debt repayments, higher incentives for bribes, and other issues of that nature. Financial liberalization also increased money-laundering opportunities for drug cartels, and capital market investments created a narco sector.

Human Rights Watch now refers to a human rights crisis in Mexico, the culmination of an unprecedented body count and forced disappearances, along with the terror, bombings, beheadings, mutilations, torture, mass graves, and other forms of suffering that have been inflicted upon the Mexican people in recent years. Groups analyzing this sector have issued a call for caution by policy-makers in light of Mexico’s admittance into the Trans-Pacific Partnership, but the same word of caution can be applied to the ongoing development of the Pacific Alliance: lest history repeat itself.

To sum up, I suggest that the following questions need to be asked regarding whether or not Canada should become an official member of the Pacific Alliance.

Number one, how would full participation in the Pacific Alliance contribute to a reinvigorated Americas strategy and strengthen Canada's role and relationship with the hemisphere as a whole, given the bifurcation that's taken place between the Atlantic- and the Pacific-facing countries?

Number two, with over 50% of the mineral exploration market in Latin America controlled by Canadian companies, is the Pacific Alliance a place where Canada can show its leadership in addressing the social and environmental ills that so often characterize the extractive sector?

Number three, how would the Pacific Alliance react to a disruption in democratic governance, such as what took place in Honduras in 2009 and in Paraguay in 2012?

Number four, will discussions about the service industry in the Pacific Alliance acknowledge that education, health care, clean water, electricity, and pensions are essential services rather than profit-making opportunities for private companies?

And finally, number five, is the Pacific Alliance consulting on its members' compliance with international human rights standards? Is there a human rights working group? And will the trade agreements that come out of it put human rights ahead of corporate profit, creating just, more just, and sustainable societies?

I close there and welcome your questions.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you. We'll now move to questions and answers.

We'll start with Mr. Davies. The floor is yours, sir.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being with us here today.

I think it's fair to speak for my colleague in the Liberal Party and those on this side in the New Democrats when I say that we're having a hard time trying to figure out exactly what the Pacific Alliance is. We have free trade agreements with all four countries already. Four of the five countries involved in this are already in the TPP negotiations, presumably discussing the very same things that will be discussed here. We had some great testimony last week from some academic sources and the North-South Institute who suggested that this is more about politics than it is about economics, and that it's really an attempt by the Conservative government here to foster a coalition with right-wing governments in South America as a counterweight to the Bolivarian movement in South America, which represents far more people there.

I note that Canada has trade deficits with all four of these countries, and the biggest trade deficit is with the country that we've had the longest free trade agreement with, which is Mexico. We have a $21.5 billion trade deficit with Mexico, and we've had a free trade agreement since 1994. We have a $3 billion trade deficit with Peru, an $830 million deficit with Chile, and a $78 million deficit with Colombia.

I guess my first question will be to Ms. Katz. Can you see any economic benefit to Canada entering or deepening our political integration with these four countries?

3:55 p.m.

Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation

Sheila Katz

Well, it's hard to answer that question. As you say, it's really hard to get any concrete specifics about what the Pacific Alliance is actually going to be. The four countries have amalgamated or formed joint stock markets, from my reading of it, and there are trade tariffs on the calendar, on the schedule, to be eliminated by a certain date. But other than that, we really don't know very much about it. Whether there are economic advantages or not, my point is, let's look at what the disadvantages are of already engaging with these particular countries, especially Mexico and Colombia, for the reasons that I put forth in my presentation.

As for what the economic benefits are, I'll leave that up to the economists to answer. But I would really hope that this committee and members of Parliament would look at the other concerns as well as economic considerations.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

On human rights, New Democrats believe trade agreements should promote jobs and growth, but at the same time foster high standards for labour, environment, and human rights. Members on the government side often seem to think free trade agreements themselves are a path toward that end.

I'm wondering if you can give us a brief description of what the human rights situation is like in these countries—Colombia, Peru, Chile, and Mexico—right now. Has it been improving over the last 10 years, or is it stagnant? Is it getting worse?

3:55 p.m.

Representative, Americas Policy Group, Canadian Council for International Co-operation

Sheila Katz

I believe I referred to the situation in Mexico in my presentation. Human Rights Watch is saying there is a human rights crisis in Mexico. The drug trade and the drug traffickers have taken over huge swaths of the country. Massacres are an almost daily occurrence—17 bodies found in one place, 16 in another. So there is a human rights crisis, related to the drug trade, going on in Mexico right now. That crisis is extending all the way down through Central America.

As most of you know, this committee deliberated long and hard over the human rights situation in Colombia. I can tell you that after a year and a half of the free trade agreement with Colombia, the situation has not improved. Labour rights in Colombia continue to face major violations. Colombia continues to be the worst perpetrator of murders and violations against trade unionists in the world. The body count is down slightly, but the disappearances and the threats have increased.

President Obama signed an agreement with President Santos of Colombia two years ago in order to pave the way for the U.S. to open its free trade agreement. It put into place a number of processes that would monitor labour rights facilitation, bringing to justice the perpetrators of the violence against trade unionists. It's the two-year anniversary right now of that action plan. Labour and civil society, monitors of these issues, are saying that the situation is as bad, if not worse, than it was two years ago.

Peru has its own human rights challenges, and Chile also has its human rights challenges, which we obviously don't have time to go into.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thanks.

To our representatives from the pork industry, you say that the Canadian pork industry serves over 100 countries, and the value globally of Canada's pork industry is about $3.2 billion, yet the value to Colombia, Chile, and Peru, added all together, is about $25 million. They're obviously very small players in the worldwide system here. I'm wondering where these three countries rank in the over 100 countries, in terms of getting access for our Canadian pork producers.

4 p.m.

Director, Latin America and Government Programs Management, Canada Pork International

César Urias

For starters, Colombia must be about our 10th largest market right now, in terms of volume. During the last three or four years, probably, we've seen consistent growth, especially last year when we jumped from 5,000 metric tonnes to 7,000 metric tonnes.

The other one is Chile. Chile varies a lot. We share a lot of similarities in terms of industry, production-wise. Actually, Chile is one of our largest competitors in Asia, specifically for the South Korean market. Chile is actually our 15th largest market, in terms of volume.

Peru would really fall back on the list, being our 30th largest market.

4 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

The figure I have from your presentation is $9 million Canadian—I'm talking dollars, not tonnes, I know. Out of $3.2 billion, that has to be a relatively minor market.

4 p.m.

Director, Latin America and Government Programs Management, Canada Pork International

César Urias

Definitely, yes.

4 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

You have said here that Canada's pork industry

...is privileged to be granted with System Approval...all meat establishments are eligible to export pork products and by-products. However, eligible establishments are not automatically approved by the foreign country.

Is that the case for Chile, Colombia, Peru, and Mexico? Are they not approved? Or do we have the approval?

4 p.m.

Director, Latin America and Government Programs Management, Canada Pork International

César Urias

As business develops and as business grows, more and more companies see markets as being attractive. As this occurs, meat plants will automatically become eligible to export, and that is by requesting through federal and official channels a sort of petition.