Evidence of meeting #16 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tpp.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
It's interesting, Mr. Slaco, you said it's working well. We all remember the softwood lumber issue with the United States, and I'm not sure that's a definition of working well. I'm curious. How would you respond to that?
I struggle with that. I mean, we ultimately got a solution that you might want to comment on, but I have to tell you my frustration at the time with the United States was beyond the point of reasonableness. I was quite disappointed.
February 4th, 2014 / 9:50 a.m.
Vice-President and Chief Forester, Interfor
Certainly the dispute with the U.S. on lumber trade has been around for decades—a hundred years—so it's not something new. I think what really came about in 2006 was an agreement that, while it may not have been perfect at the time, certainly provided both countries with some certainty.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Would we have had that settlement without the NAFTA, do you think?
Vice-President and Chief Forester, Interfor
It's hard for me to say specifically if that was going to occur or not. I think ultimately what happened is—
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
I'm not talking about the occurrence of the dispute. I'm talking about the settlement mechanism.
Vice-President and Chief Forester, Interfor
I think the settlement mechanism really wasn't dependent on NAFTA. It was a combination of a number of factors in terms of Canada's position in the agreement in terms of establishing trade that would conform to world international standards, and the U.S.'s ability, given the fact that they had some unilateral actions that were available to them through their U.S. Department of Commerce, that ultimately resulted in an agreement that both sides could live with. If you look at it since 2006, I think it has worked well. In fact, both parties agreed to extend it a year ago, and I think it was because there was a recognition that while it may not have been perfect, it was actually working.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to follow up on the question Mr. Pacetti asked earlier.
Mr. Boon, you talked about being at the table and not outside, that it's important to be at negotiations. The negotiations for the TPP began in 2005, and the main ones started in 2008. Canada entered TPP negotiations in 2012, and by that time 14 rounds were already completed. Part of the condition of Canada's entry was that we would not be able to go back and renegotiate what has already been negotiated.
Are you concerned about what's already been done and that we weren't at the table?
General Manager, British Columbia Cattlemen's Association
Not overly, at this point, for the simple reason that we've had a very good and open relationship with the government trade groups with Minister Ritz and Minister Fast in putting forward what it will take for us and what we require going forward in any market. We have a very strong position of exactly what it takes for our industry to move forward. Those have always been set in stone, and we've always been adamant that if we don't adhere to these and if we aren't listened to on them, it will be extremely hard and detrimental to our moving forward.
So while we maybe haven't seen all the details and fine print involved, and the devil is always in the details, I think a very good effort has been made to make sure they've done everything possible to make our industry viable.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
Would you agree that we are not able to go back to what's been negotiated already? That could serve as a disadvantage to Canada.
General Manager, British Columbia Cattlemen's Association
It could, but I guess at the end of the day—
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
That's all I want.
Mr. Newman, you talked about environmental concerns. How can governments and businesses work together to mitigate those environmental concerns and the image of sustainability?
President, Vancouver Head Office, Canada Wood Group
What I was trying to get at was that there's a movement in many countries around the world now to use wood in a way that is part of an environmental solution in building and other areas. I think anything we can do to highlight the fact that Canada's wood products come from a sustainably managed forest, and that —
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
How can government be part of the building of sustainable wood products that we export to other countries?
President, Vancouver Head Office, Canada Wood Group
Well, you could be part of it through any discussion on the TPP, but we have examples right now, say in China, where the federal government is working with MOHURD, China's ministry of construction, to position wood as a green building material to help China with some of its environmental issues to do with energy efficiency and things like that. So there are real, concrete things on a bilateral level. Then I would expect there would be opportunities at the TPP level.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
You talked about new markets like Vietnam and Malaysia, and how a lot of the manufacturing is shifting toward those two countries. Again, how can industry and government work together to produce value-added products here, rather than exporting raw logs out to those countries? How can we work together here to have value-added jobs?
President, Vancouver Head Office, Canada Wood Group
Interestingly, this work that Canada Wood Group has been doing, which has been supported by the federal government and the provinces—and it's actually been supported since about 1999, so under different governments—has been pushing to try to create demand for value-added products in different nations, particularly in places like Japan and other places where people have considerable income.
That is a concrete example of something that's going on right now to try to develop demand and create value-added jobs here in Canada.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
Mr. Boon, you talked about investing for the next 30 years and what's going to happen in 30 years. Again, how can the government partner with industry in that investment in order to create future value-added jobs?
General Manager, British Columbia Cattlemen's Association
A lot of it comes from creating the atmosphere by making sure that we have the personnel, but right now one of our biggest issues out on the land is keeping young people there with some of the other industry and the competition. Forestry, actually, with the downturn that they've had, right now their mid-term timber supply is going to be at a low, and they're going to probably have some extra workers at that time. We run through these labour things so that we have, number one, a trained force, but that's right at the grassroots. We need to be able to keep that going.
When we talk about investment in the future, it's making that capacity to keep the product at home, to do the cut-out, to do the processing, which is a huge part, to develop our grasslands, and to work with the other vested interests on the land to make sure we can produce the grass that's required to grow it.
We are at an all-time record low for beef herd size. It topped out in 2005, but here in British Columbia we've lost over a third of our mother cows in that time, and a lot of it was due to the fact that we just didn't have access to a lot of markets. With those opening up now, we're in that position where we're down, but we see a global supply shortage with droughts around the world and everything.
We're in an atmosphere where we need to grow our herds to take advantage and we're also in an atmosphere where we're seeing population growth. We're also seeing at this time that, globally, beef is really craved, and so we have an opportunity. We have to make it advantageous and desirable for the young guys to stay on the farm and produce it, and also make that investment worthwhile down the road. The trade agreements that we sign today will help us ensure investment on our own for the future. If we know we have a market, we'll invest on our own as well.
Conservative
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Thank you both for being here.
Mr. Boon, you made reference in your presentation to OIE standards. Could you tell us what those are?
General Manager, British Columbia Cattlemen's Association
The OIE standards—I'm sorry, I always get lost in what the initials actually stand for—but it's really our world health organization for veterinary practices, for animal health. A lot of those standards are left to interpretation by the country, so there are certain rules that might get put in by a trading partner under certain things.
A very good example of this is the use of adding growth promoters to help efficiencies. A lot of it isn't understood, and it isn't based on science when they stop it. It's a matter of feeling that we're adding something, so it has to be bad.
We have to make sure that the science base and that the recommendations under OIE are actually adhered to, and we don't see that everywhere. In some of our trading alliances, especially Australia and New Zealand, they don't follow those same criteria, those same rules. As a result, they're able to do things a little differently and make their own bilateral agreements. It's very important to us in a TPP agreement that everybody agrees to utilize the same standards.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
That's right. Now they are voluntary.
General Manager, British Columbia Cattlemen's Association
They are voluntary. If a country signs on, we follow that code of conduct and those standards and practices, and that's part of our trading capacity. Some countries do not. They're not signed onto the OIE, so as a result, they don't necessarily follow those same practices.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Here is my last question. Is there anything your industry would need, whether in terms of support from government or the industry, to take advantage of the TPP once it's concluded?
