Evidence of meeting #7 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was europe.
2:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Halifax Gateway Council
It has been in the press the last two days about, I think, pie-in-the-sky thinking around whether there is a potential to move the container terminal.
Is that what you're referring to?
2:55 p.m.
NDP
Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
No. I'm talking about the infrastructure, the rail line going in and out, and the difficulty of getting truck traffic in and out.
2:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Halifax Gateway Council
I suppose having a container terminal in the south end is never easy for moving trucks through the downtown, but at this point, the capacity usage at the container terminal is lower now than it has been in the past, so it's probably easier now than in the past.
From CN's perspective, I think they have the ability to increase capacity on the rail line, so I don't think there is any need to increase capacity.
2:55 p.m.
NDP
Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Can you comment on the question of competition from the other ports?
2:55 p.m.
Executive Director, Halifax Gateway Council
From our perspective, we really focus on Halifax. When the capacity in Halifax is 100% utilized, or nearing 100% utilized, then we think it makes sense to move outward in the province.
3 p.m.
NDP
Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Is it the Gateway Council's plan to do any further work, research and otherwise, into the details of the plan to make sure that whether it be the airport—I know there has been a big expansion in terms of lengthening the runway. We're probably two, three, or five years off, but what is the plan to make sure the port, the airport, and the rail are ready?
Is that work going to be done?
3 p.m.
Executive Director, Halifax Gateway Council
We'll work on looking further into the impacts of CETA , so we can market that. We'll also look further into the impacts around the goods and supplies necessary to fuel the megaprojects.
We would probably leave the capacity around private sector companies, such as Halterm, up to them, to research and determine what is appropriate for their company as well as for the port.
3 p.m.
NDP
Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS
Mr. Hutt, did your organization have any discussions with the provincial government during these negotiations?
3 p.m.
Coordinator, Nova Scotia Citizens Health Care Network
Yes, we have. We expressed our concerns about this and about the increased costs of pharmaceuticals, as well as the looming cut to the Canada health transfer, given the changing formula.
3 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Thank you very much.
We'll now move to Mr. Shory, for five minutes.
3 p.m.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing this afternoon.
It is my understanding that the Halifax gateway is an integral component of Canada's Atlantic gateway.
I was going through your October 31 press release, where it says you had plans to go to Europe, and you told us you have been there. It seems that the delegation was among the first to capitalize on the agreement by collaboratively promoting opportunities within the Atlantic gateway.
That press release stated:
“The collaboration of our Gateway members offers European companies seamless and unified access to all modes of transportation and logistics services.”
It appears to me that you have acted swiftly to begin ensuring that the gateway is prepared for the increased business you expect to see. In terms of transportation and logistics, what concrete steps have you taken to increase capacity? Also, what infrastructure have you begun investing in as a result of the agreement in principle between Canada and the European Union?
3 p.m.
Executive Director, Halifax Gateway Council
For us, over the past several years the Halifax gateway and gateway partners have actively invested in their infrastructure to ensure they have capacity and have the ability to take on a lot more cargo, whether it be at the airport or at the port of Halifax, or at either one of the container terminals. CN Rail is ready to handle an increase in their capacity usage as well.
We have worked very closely over the past few years with our municipality to market and brand the Halifax Logistics Park. We are 48 acres away from finishing phase one of the Logistics Park at full capacity. Then we are gearing up to figure out, as a community, how to create the necessary infrastructure financing we would need to build a roadway and open up phase two lands.
3 p.m.
Conservative
Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB
It seems like you're all set.
Last night when I was driving from the airport, the car driver and I got into a conversation and the car driver was actually worried about where they would get all the employees to work here in Halifax once the agreement is in place and things keep on moving.
Talking about the infrastructure, and in light of your visit to Europe in the first week of this month, it seems that you have the plans in place to modify. Do you have the plans to modify transportation and logistical capacity once the agreement is in place and things start moving five or six years down the road?
What I mean is that once the flow starts, if needed, would you be able to upgrade immediately as the demand requires?
3:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Halifax Gateway Council
I believe both the container terminals can double their existing capacity throughput currently. That's a lot of unused capacity that they are ready to take on. I believe the airport is as well. I will ask Joyce to talk to the capacity there.
3:05 p.m.
Chair, Halifax Gateway Council
From a cargo perspective, with the recent extension of our runway and as well the addition of a multi-tenant cargo facility, which has temperature-controlled space, we currently process 30,000 tonnes of cargo through the airport, and with our existing infrastructure that's able to double. That will take us out for a ways, including the early impacts of CETA.
From a passenger perspective, today we process 3.6 million passengers through the Halifax airport and our existing infrastructure is certainly well beyond the numbers I'm going to give you on the air side, but in the terminal and on ground side, it's able to handle up to 5.5 million passengers, so there's a significant area for growth.
3:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
The time is gone.
I do want to thank you.
Basically, what you're saying to us is that as far as capacity is concerned, whether it's rail, air, or sea, and I've tried to get a handle on the numbers—in response to the last question you actually nailed the numbers—you can double the capacity in all of those, and in air traffic you could actually go four times more. That's actually very impressive.
I want to thank you for coming and sharing your testimony with the committee.
Our time has gone for this segment. I certainly appreciate what you had to offer and we'll take it under consideration.
With that, we will suspend as we set up the next panel.
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Okay, we'd like to call the meeting back to order. We want to thank our next panellists for being here.
Just to let the committee know, Mr. Stephen Ross was going to be joining us for the last panel. He has actually accelerated his time schedule and will be presenting with the panellists here. We will extend the time an extra half hour for the questioning, so we will be able to get three in on this segment.
First of all, from the Atlantic Grains Council, we have Michael Delaney and Neil Campbell. Thank you for being here.
From the Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association, we have Marc Surette. I believe you'll start, Mr. Surette. The floor is yours, and we'll hope Mr. Ross gets here before the panellists are done.
3:15 p.m.
Marc Surette Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fish Packers Association
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for inviting us to present.
This is certainly a major announcement for the seafood industry in Nova Scotia. I've been in this position for just over two years, and I can say it has been a number one priority for a large number of my membership.
Europe represents a huge seafood-consuming population. It is our second biggest trading partner to the U.S. when it comes to seafood, and it represents about 20% of our exports. We're talking about $200 million to $250 million a year. It's a nice chunk of change for the seafood business.
There has certainly been a continued following by my members over the last few months, in particular this summer, on some of the issues. We were scared. We showed our support by sending a letter to Minister Fast and our local MPs, Gerald Keddy and Greg Kerr, to continue our support and be willing to do whatever it took to get to this point.
When the deal in principle was signed, some of my members were so excited they asked if they should start looking at their inventory. I told them no, that we were still a little ways away. This is how enthusiastic they are. It's easy to understand. When you have duty rates that start around 6% and can end up at 23% to 25%, it certainly makes your seafood product far less attractive on a price-point issue. When you're competing with the likes of Norway and Iceland, it's certainly going to be advantageous.
Another aspect of this that has caused problems is repeated import quotas on certain species. I think of silver hake and salted cod. There is a small amount that gets in at a lower duty rate, but between fishing seasons and the logistics of storage, trying to play the quota game becomes costly. You've probably chewed up whatever benefits you're going to get, and you don't have control of your product anymore. In the fish business, “COD” isn't just fish.
Reducing and eliminating the tariffs will certainly make our products more attractive to the European customer base. We have been there for a long time, and our products are known, but to be able to compete on that level playing field is going to add to our ability to make money. Fish business is all about simple terms.
We've also been told that with this, we'll basically be able to skip the brokers and we'll have access directly to the retail market. Again, it's another way to compete, another way to be more profitable, and profit is a good thing. In an industry that's seen its instant profit with the U.S. dollar evaporate in the past decade, it is very encouraging to find a way to get some of that back.
It doesn't come without trying. People are sincerely putting their efforts in. I met one of our members, the principal of one of our companies, the other day. Usually I'd see him in a jacket and tie. It is very unlikely to see someone in the fish business in a jacket and tie, yet he's the one I see. Some of you may know him, Jean Guy d'Entremont. I saw him last week on the wharf in rubber boots, a hoodie, a jacket, in the rain. When I asked him what he was doing, he said, “Well, this is my normal day at work.” That's how people are doing this.
I speak in simple terms, trying to keep everybody.... When this comes out, my members will read this.
Basically, increasing the value means more money for coastal communities. That's a positive. That's going to come in terms of steadier employment, increased employment in the shore-based plants, something that we've seen wither away since the early 1990s, and it's something that really can provide jobs. They're good jobs. They pay better than minimum wage as a rule. Usually they're not far from your home, and you know you'll get paid. You have a little more flexibility.
Another aspect of this is resource pricing. If we see tariffs go down, it means our sale prices can stay the same and we can have a trickle-down effect. It's not going to just affect big businesses; this is going to affect small and medium-sized shore businesses. Ultimately it will affect the harvesters on the water, and they are some of the hardest-working people you'll ever meet.
Another positive aspect that we're finding is the most favoured nation status. As we hear the Americans are now entering into their round of talks, we know we're on a level playing field. That's a great idea. Coming from a background in brokerage and having spent time doing customs entries, I understand full well what kind of benefit that can mean. To see this as part of the trade deal is a positive. No one is going to have a leg-up on us from this point forward.
There are some concerns. Access to resources was echoed in the days following the announcement. I am confident in DFO policy to make sure that foreign interests do not have access to our resources inside the 200-mile limit.
I've gone through the NAFTA process. Oddly enough, I've read that document twice. It's not as boring as my mortgage, but it's close. There were a lot of those similar fears as we went into NAFTA. Are they going to come and take our water, or what are they going to take? At the end of the day, they didn't take anything and they can't take anything. I'm hoping that's the way we're going to go forward with CETA.
With the EU representing that much, this is a major deal for Nova Scotia. We've seen the lobster industry suffer. We've seen resources and allocations for groundfish cut. We need some good news. In my line of work there are very few good news stories, but thanks to some hard work, we have one to talk about today.
I won't chew up any more of your time.
3:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Thank you very much. I'm sure you'll have stimulated a number of questions and they'll want to be as direct as you have been.
We will now move to the Atlantic Grains Council. Some of us on this committee come from a grain area. It's great to have you here representing the grain industry of the Atlantic.
Welcome, Michael Delaney and Neil Campbell. I'm not exactly sure who is starting off.
Mr. Delaney, the floor is yours.
3:20 p.m.
Michael Delaney Support Staff, Director, Grain Growers of Canada, Atlantic Grains Council
Thank you.
In the interests of economy, then, I'll shorten the introduction. I'm Michael Delaney. With me is Neil Campbell. I'm representing the Grain Growers of Canada and supporting the Atlantic Grains Council. Neil is representing the Atlantic Grains Council.
Our presentation is regional and national in scope, so I'll read it and try to stay to the text.
The Grain Growers of Canada represent over 50,000 successful grain farmers from British Columbia to Atlantic Canada. From the beginning, the Grain Growers have supported the comprehensive economic and trade agreement, CETA, negotiations, as we believe new markets are essential and crucial for Canadian farmers.
New opportunities in a global marketplace are important, because we export 85% of our canola, 70% of our wheat, and 65% of our malt barley nationally. The trade deal will give farmers and the agriculture industry greater access to 500 million consumers and to GDP worth over $17 trillion. Our assessment indicates that this deal will deliver these new market opportunities for Canadian grain farmers.
The gains include increased market access, which is always positive and will be trade enabling for cereals, oilseeds, and livestock, both nationally and regionally. In a general sense, any trade deal that increases demand or reduces supply nationally is a great deal for Canadian farmers and the overall economy.
From an Atlantic exporter's point of view, we also see new opportunities around the corner coming from CETA. Any success we achieve will be tied to the strategic importance of the Halifax harbour and its supporting infrastructure, where there are 11,000 jobs, and where 1,500 vessels are handled annually. It's also the closest shipping point to Europe, so we see the opportunity and potential for more business for the Atlantic economy.
Nationally, the industry's estimates for gains are $90 million in net gains for the canola sector, over $20 million in net revenue gains for wheat, and $1 billion in combined net gains for the beef and pork sector. Although I'm here today representing the grain growers, I will say that the substantial gains anticipated for Canada's livestock sector will be especially good for the Canadian feed grain producers and will have a positive ripple effect for the value-added industry.
Nationally, the feed industry consumes about 80% of our total harvested barley and about 15% of our total wheat crop production. Here in the Maritimes, a portion of our grain production is used as fish food. Any growth in fish and fish product exports to Europe will no doubt benefit Atlantic grain farmers.
We have some info on tariff lines relative to our grain exports to Europe: for oats, $114; for barley and rye, $120; for sweet corn, immediate access on 8,000 tonnes; and for wheat, depending on quality and class, current tariffs are up to $190 a tonne. Eliminating these tariffs will give our wheat exporters much greater confidence in establishing long-term supply relationships with European customers. Down the road, CETA will lock in permanent duty-free access on all Canadian grain exports.
These are real and important gains, and that is why at the Grain Growers we encourage the government to ensure the agreement is concluded quickly.
All of that being said, the Grain Growers will continue to keep our eyes open about some areas of concern.
For example, what do we know about European grading standards? How do they harmonize with our own? What's the commercial business climate for something in the area of 24 to 27 nations?
As well, there is more work needed on pragmatic and workable sanitary and phytosanitary provisions and risk assessment processes. Harmonization will need to be considered at some level on regulatory and inspection regimes.
Last, Canadian farmers are among the most environmentally sustainable farmers in the world and are showing global leadership in developing and implementing sustainable farm management practices.
The Grain Growers of Canada are eager to see the Canada-EU trade deal open a new dialogue through an active working group or groups that will focus on biotechnology issues to address non-tariff barriers. A similar approach may be needed to move the UPOV 91, which has to do with plant breeders' rights and intellectual property. There is a similar opportunity to structure those consultations.
On behalf of the Grain Growers, I thank you for considering our views. I'll turn the panel over to my colleague, Neil.
3:25 p.m.
Neil Campbell Representative, General Manager, Prince Edward Island Grain Elevators Corporation, Atlantic Grains Council
Thanks.
I'm Neil Campbell, general manager of the P.E.I. Grain Elevator Corporation. Thanks for your time.
The elevator is a farmer-controlled board of directors. I'm here today representing the Atlantic Grains Council, which we are a member of.
At the elevator I'm directly responsible for the purchase, sale, risk management, and logistics of close to 80,000 tonnes from P.E.I alone. Because of shrinking availability of livestock in our area, 65% to 75% of those products are now exported off the island This is a recent phenomenon and is very positive for farmers and the local economy.
The Atlantic Grains Council represents the entire regional value chain. It is made up of our four provinces, hundreds of growers, processors, and input suppliers. The organization is financed through producer association memberships and an industry sponsorship program. A recent effort of the council has included the successful implementation of a voluntary producer-led research levy in order to improve our region's ability to increase our research capacity, especially at the local level.
Agriculture has always been important to our region, and it is today as well. Farms are diverse, with crops and livestock production. Atlantic Canada exports crops around the world, domestically and internationally.
Some of our challenges locally include the lack of value-added processing facilities and difficulties with transportation handling, which increases our costs. Regionally, we use the elevator here in Halifax for use in distribution. In addition, there are several sizable feed markets that assess these facilities. The major mainland companies use local food sources. We manufacture several hundred thousand tonnes of livestock and fish food for the aquaculture business.
I'll give you a brief overview of the Atlantic agriculture output. Nova Scotia farmers have shown signs of developing greater capacity for crops such as corn and soybeans for on-farm use. There are grain brokerage facilities available in that province to purchase the grain and soy products. A similar trend is also noticed in New Brunswick, although they have some issues, being closer to Quebec and Ontario, with domestic competition.
As far as the P.E.I. elevator is concerned, it's a good-news story. We currently store excess capacity in Halifax. This includes our milling wheat and 10,000 tonnes of feed wheat for local use and our export program. Over 15,000 tonnes of P.E.I. barley have been stored in the elevator and have now been shipped to Morocco, as a result of some trade improvements in the last couple of years. We're also in the process of moving 29,000 tonnes of soybeans, which will end up in Europe in the biodiesel industry. We see these markets being opened up to the Middle East and the European Union as very positive for our area.
If it were not for participating in these key opportunities, prices paid to the local producers would be much more subdued because of the oversupply of grains and oilseeds, as well as insufficient infrastructure to handle the storage. While there's competition, the facilities in Halifax are very convenient for our milling wheat. The local flour mill uses 100% of our product, and it's felt to be cost-effective for the flour mill.
There are also facilities available that could hold containerized products, such as malt barley into Europe. Identity preserved soybeans, non-GMO, would also go in those areas. These contracts that would be given to the farmers are very beneficial to them. As prices have been quite high lately, it's been a great way to offset falling demand for regional livestock.
Our business is anticipating potential future opportunities with the new market access related to direct access to these markets. We've now commissioned a study to identify these higher value markets inside the European Union and to learn how we can access them. We also see that the Canadian-European trade opportunities are very advantageous for our local grain farmers and the regional agriculture industry here at home.
We're very aware of the importance of the work of this committee, and we're aware of the various regional, provincial, and national processor and producer organizations that provide you with the input required to continue your deliberations on the comprehensive economic trade agreement.
Thank you.
3:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Thank you very much for your testimony.
We want to also thank Stephen Ross for moving the agenda up a little bit. I'm glad your day freed up a little bit to join us here at this panel.
You're from the Cherubini Group of Companies, and we want to yield the floor to you. We'll listen to your testimony and then we'll start the questioning.
November 25th, 2013 / 3:30 p.m.
Stephen Ross General Manager, Cherubini Group of Companies
Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you on CETA, the Canada-European Union comprehensive economic and trade agreement.
My name is Steve Ross, and I'm the general manager of the Cherubini Group of Companies. We are a Nova Scotia based operation, and all our plants and facilities are here in Nova Scotia. The company was formed in 1971 by some Italian immigrants, and they continue to own and operate the company today. Through constant improvement and investment, we've become Atlantic Canada's largest steel fabricator, employing over 400 people in our group of companies.
Our focus of work is primarily bridges, buildings, and infrastructure projects throughout Atlantic Canada. We also carry out work in Ontario and the United States. From 1998 to 2008, approximately 50% of our sales were in fact export work to the United States. However, our U.S. sales dropped dramatically due to three factors, one being the strong Canadian dollar, another the U.S. recession, and the other the 2009 buy American steel provisions for procurement on infrastructure.
In 2009 we saw a dramatic reduction in overall sales. However, with the Canadian government funding for infrastructure in Canada over the past several years, we have refocused our efforts on projects here in Canada and have rebounded with strong sales and growth. In fact, we just completed a $20-million expansion to our facilities. However, U.S. sales remain stagnant as far as overall sales are concerned.
I have reviewed the technical summary of the filed negotiated outcomes, but to our knowledge, there are no current import duties for eurozone companies in our product line. The eurozone, British, and Asian companies do in fact ship goods and services to Canada, similar to the products that we produce. For instance, the approximate value of the majority of the structural steel is $150 million Canadian for the Long Harbour nickel processing plant, which is under construction in Newfoundland as we speak. It is produced by William Hare, a steel fabrication company in Britain. We in fact bid on this project, but the contract was awarded by the owner, Vale, to this offshore company.
I have a side note, talking about Vale, on what we've seen in the past number of years. Vale, which was formerly owned by Inco, was sold for $18 billion or something like that in 2006 to Vale, a Brazilian company. We find that the larger international companies have a tendency to shop the world for their goods and services needed here in Canada, whereas Inco, when they were a Canadian company, would shop in Canada for their goods and services. We do find a bit of a propensity for large international companies that own and operate, whether it be mines or whatever, here in Canada, their tendency is to shop the world as opposed to shopping here in Canada for their goods and services.
Another example of foreign companies working here in Canada is the Walterdale Bridge in Edmonton, which is a $120-million bridge that was recently awarded a few weeks ago to Acciona/Pacer, a joint venture from Spain. They're a Spanish general contractor, and they in turn awarded the structural steel fabrication for that project to Daewoo, which is a Korean-based fabrication company. We are seeing a lot more foreign competition, at least in our business. When I say foreign, I mean European and Asian.
U.S. companies, we find, are not as competitive, or we're competitive there as well, because we have similar cost structures. We could compete in the U.S. fairly recently; however, with buy American, what's happening now is we're having difficulty getting work in the U.S. simply because of that condition, along with the value of the Canadian dollar.
We do have several concerns with the CETA. Just as a preamble, I think it's important to understand that in our business, or in any other business we're talking about here, ocean container rates are such that shipping costs from Europe to Canada are comparable to shipping costs within Canada. I can send a container to Ireland, Scotland or Spain for the same cost as I can send a truck to Ontario. When you look at freight or geography, we're such a big country, the geography is not as important when it comes to costs as far as freight and deliveries are concerned. A lot of times the playing field is balanced a little bit in that our geography doesn't have a major impact as far as cost is concerned.
The other factors we're going to talk about are that other countries have certain protective measures, such as buy American provisions, which impede free trade.
How does the CETA police and deal with eurozone countries that provide tax or labour benefits for exports? We see that some countries have tax-free zones and export tax credits that certainly create an uneven playing field for companies like ours.
The current agreement does not provide federal, provincial, or municipal protection with respect to local benefits. For example, here in Halifax the reconstruction of the Macdonald Bridge is going to be contracted for in the next several months. It's a $160-million project. Without any local benefits under the new CETA , there will be no advantage for us to be the local company, as opposed to someone from Spain or Korea or another country. To us, that's a real concern: how the federal and provincial governments will provide some incentive for local benefit.
Also, a good example of that is how the recent WTO rulings related to Ontario's Green Energy Act will adversely affect job creation. The Ontario government mandated that 50% of the cost of wind tower construction had to be spent in Ontario. They've been doing that for several years, and the WTO recently ruled that's an unfair labour and trade practice. I believe there's going to be a lawsuit over that with the Ontario government. They're going to have to pay somebody some money.
With those kinds of trade practices under the CETA, there are no measures in there that I can see if the federal, provincial, or municipal governments want to protect local industries, whether through energy conservation or labour market conditions.
With respect to the infrastructure stimulus moneys that are put forth by the federal and provincial governments, when the federal government decides they're going to inject some infrastructure and stimulus money into the economy, with this CETA, there's nothing to keep that money here in Canada. That work can be sent to other countries. If it's for building a bridge, for example, that work can be done in Spain, Korea or other places, because under the CETA, under free trade, they have equal rights to do the work here in Canada. We see that as a hindrance.
We also see there'll be a lot of exposure to legal battles, with respect to interpretation of the CETA. I have a legal opinion on the agreement now. There are still holes in the agreement in principle. A lot of loose ends are subject to legal interpretation, and that results in a lot of litigation. I don't think the agreement is ironclad when it comes to legal interpretation.
Getting back to item 7, I want to talk about the factors beyond our control that would significantly affect our competitiveness with eurozone states, one being currency exchange rates. I did some analysis of our sales over the past 10 or 12 years, U.S. sales compared to the U.S. dollar, and there's a direct correlation with the Canadian dollar strengthening and our sales in the U.S. shrinking. Undoubtedly, the euro has decreased about 30% in the last two or three years; certainly that helps European companies, because their euro is certainly weaker and that affects their costs.
You look at all the states—the countries are states; it seems to me the word is used interchangeably between eurozone countries and states. I looked at average household wages in the eurozone. I looked at Canada compared to a number of the countries we're dealing with here, and for the most part, average wages are 30% to 40% less than here in Canada.This will undoubtedly shift labour to the lower-cost areas. If something can be made more cheaply somewhere else because of lower labour costs, then that product will likely shift to that area, so we see that potential.
Also, some of the factors that are really unknown, safety, environmental, human rights, and other factors may be less stringent in certain countries, which will obviously affect our competitiveness. If we have certain safety requirements and human rights, there are a lot of factors that go into our cost, and other countries that may not have those conditions obviously are at a competitive advantage.
In closing, we're an at-risk company. We receive limited federal, provincial, and municipal funds in our operations. We're strong supporters of free trade, but insofar as it's fair trade. What I mean by fair trade is we've been competing with U.S. companies and they're comparable as far as human rights, laws, wages, all the components that go into the cost of doing work, are concerned. If they're fair and comparable, then we're happy with that, but we think of it more as fair trade as opposed to free trade.
That's it and thank you.