Yes, if you think that all fishermen are angry....
Evidence of meeting #8 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.
Evidence of meeting #8 for International Trade in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.
11:55 a.m.
Advocate, Community Fisheries, As an Individual
Yes, if you think that all fishermen are angry....
11:55 a.m.
Advocate, Community Fisheries, As an Individual
Five thousand happy fishermen. Let's focus on making them happy fishermen, and in CETA—
11:55 a.m.
Advocate, Community Fisheries, As an Individual
Yes. Well, in CETA, I implore the developers of CETA to please look very carefully at everything that might impact that $1.8-billion industry here in Atlantic Canada and Quebec, and let's make it ironclad that we're not going to disrupt them.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Don't you think it would have been better to speak to them before?
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC
The government would have known what they were up against, and those people will face the inconvenience over the years.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I have a very short question for Mr. Cody.
With the unemployment rate way up there in Europe, over 60% for young people in some countries, do you think that we'll be trading on an even playing field with those countries? Or will we not be suffering from dumping, from their over-capacity of production in the car industry, particularly? They're shutting down plants in France because they could supply five times their market needs, and now they'll be bar open with Canada.
11:55 a.m.
Col John Cody
I've read a fair amount about this since I got the call to come, and I feel a little bit like the staked goat at the lion hunt, but you are probably somewhat correct. In terms of workers coming into Canada, they'll only take the ones who are qualified. That only scrapes a little bit off the need the EU has, but I cannot imagine that our industries would move their capacity en masse to Eastern Europe. I don't see it.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Thank you very much. Time has gone.
We'll go now to Mr. O'Toole.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Once again, I really appreciate the witnesses taking their time to present their perspective on this agreement. That's exactly why the committee is reaching out to Canadians and key stakeholders: to get their feedback, to also stimulate discussions on how to take advantage of this in the time that we're going to be ratifying the agreement.
Unfortunately, like all parliamentary committees, Mr. Fiander, most of our meetings are in Ottawa, but we do budget for witnesses to appear either in Ottawa or when we do try to travel outside of Ottawa. The number of planned meetings, I think, is six to eight, and they'll primarily be in Ottawa. Right now, our first visit outside of Ottawa is to Atlantic Canada. We would love to come to every provincial capital, but we try to also pick an area where witnesses can be flown in cost effectively.
Speaking of Newfoundland, I previously had the great pleasure, as we were saying last night at the reception, of sailing aboard HMCS St. John's and taking part in a fisheries patrol mission, and then later taking the late-Lieutenant Governor Maxwell House, who just passed last month, on a tour of the outports. As we were saying, it was François and Harbour Breton, some really spectacular people and locations.
I'll repeat the numbers I gave to Mr. Etchegary this morning. The processing industry, which had hundreds of plants, is now down to under 100, but those plants are modern, competitive, and have highly trained workers. You've heard some of the numbers on the tariff rates that will be eliminated with the European deal. The processed seafood products actually have the highest tariff rates, a 20% tariff rate. Don't you foresee that as a benefit to the plants that still remain in Newfoundland?
Noon
Advocate, Community Fisheries, As an Individual
Well, you see, the one thing this agreement will not change is the availability of resource. We have destroyed, and continue to destroy, stock after stock of our fish resources. All the agreements in the world are not going to change that: we can't export more than we can harvest.
The reason these plants are closing down is because the supply is simply not there. They were overbuilt in the first place, that's true, except that we simply had too many that were built for political reasons rather than market reasons.
I don't call myself an expert on this subject, but I think Gus would agree—we've spent a lifetime looking at those kinds of issues—the key issue here is the resource itself.
Noon
Conservative
Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON
As you said, for decades there has always been a little bit of politics in the industry. But in recent decades there has been a stabilization somewhat of the inshore fishery with the new addition of the shrimp, as you alluded to, and crab fisheries, which have certainly not replaced other fish stocks, but they are increasing.
The offshore fleets in the last few decades have done more processing on board ship, so that has also affected the industry.
Could you comment on that, as a general industry trend, not even specific to Canada?
Noon
Advocate, Community Fisheries, As an Individual
Again, looking at the offshore factory freezer trawlers, from a community point of view—and that is the point of view that I bring to this discussion—that's a capital-intensive industry, not labour intensive. The distribution of wealth from the industry is limited if we're going to go down that road, whereas if we continue supporting our communities and policies that support our communities and so on, that is more in line with distributive justice in the fishery.
Noon
Conservative
Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON
Colonel Cody, thank you as well for appearing.
Your work obviously is extensive in the aerospace and defence sectors here, both as an operator and a senior military leader. But post your Canadian Forces career in the industry here in Nova Scotia.... I have the honour of sitting on an aerospace caucus in Ottawa and I've increasingly talked about Halifax and the HRM as an aerospace and defence industry hub. It's not as well-known as Montreal, Winnipeg, or Toronto.
Could you really discuss the industry here in Nova Scotia that could also start selling abroad and exporting?
Noon
Col John Cody
I can, actually. The last figures that I was intimately involved with were that the aerospace and defence sector in Nova Scotia employs about 6,500 people and it's worth $1.5 billion a year. I'm sure that will go up soon because IMP has just acquired Cascade Aerospace out west. That would be a bottom-line thing.
It's a big industry, it's an important industry, to this small province. I'm fairly confident in saying that there are a couple of concerns, however. One would be even maintaining that level. That goes back to the ability of the education system here to produce enough people to be able to work down the road at IMP Aerospace and in some of the other aerospace and defence industries around here.
As I mentioned, I was the chair of the HR partnership, a human resources partnership, working in partnership with the ADIANS and some of the educational institutions around here to try to hammer out what is the deficit going to be and why.
The “why” is that we have a lot of workers who are aging out. In the next five years many of them—somewhere about 50%—are expected to go. The education system here is not geared to produce the kids. You try to get in and talk to them and they'll close you off very quickly because every day the curriculum is planned all the way through.
We see, and it was certainly seen then, that if there is a relaxing of the rules and regulations that allow the IMPs of the world to bring in temporary or permanent foreign workers, then that's the only way they're going to get there from here.
There is a trickle down. They go to little paint shops, little machine shops, and places like that as well.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield
Thank you very much.
Welcome, Mr. Pacetti. You got here just in time for the storm to hit.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thanks. I hope I didn't bring it with me.
Sorry for being a little late, but I caught the end of your speech, Mr. Fiander. In your last sentence, which is what I want to ask a question on, you said that we should probably have hearings in Newfoundland.
If we held those hearings in Newfoundland, what would I hear that you didn't have time to tell us about?
12:05 p.m.
Advocate, Community Fisheries, As an Individual
Well, that's why you would have the hearings there—to find out what they have to say.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
I can give you 30 seconds now. My time is limited; they cut my time, so I don't have as much time as the other guys have.
12:05 p.m.
Advocate, Community Fisheries, As an Individual
I don't propose to represent the views of all of Newfoundland. These are my views, and I guess views shared by a small group of people in the Fisheries Community Alliance.
I don't know what they would tell you. I think people will certainly be happy to hear about the tariff reductions, because it means that their product will be more marketable, but they will be concerned about the things that Gus and I have talked about.
If we relieve minimum processing requirements, that's jobs at stake. I think the Government of Canada recognizes that there will be some pretty significant impacts, because the Province of Newfoundland will be the only province to get a cheque in two years for $280 million.
I worked at Treasury Board. I know that Treasury Board doesn't write a $280-million cheque without some rationale for it. I'd love to see what the rationale was, but I'm sure it has to do with jobs that are going to be lost.