Evidence of meeting #13 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tpp.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Patti Miller  President, Canola Council of Canada
Cam Dahl  President, Cereals Canada
François Labelle  Executive Director, Manitoba Pulse and Soybean Growers
Gord Kurbis  Director, Market Access and Trade Policy, Manitoba Pulse and Soybean Growers
Lynne Fernandez  Errol Black Chair in Labour Issues, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Chris Vervaet  Executive Director, Canadian Oilseed Processors Association
Jean-Marc Ruest  Senior Vice-President, Corporate Affairs and General Counsel, Richardson International Limited, Member, Western Grain Elevator Association
Wade Sobkowich  Executive Director, Western Grain Elevator Association
Heinz Reimer  President, Manitoba Beef Producers
Sudhir Sandhu  Chief Executive Officer, Manitoba Building Trades
Andrew Dickson  General Manager, Manitoba Pork Council
Todd Burns  President, Cypher Environmental Ltd.
Brigette DePape  Regional Organizer, Prairies, The Council of Canadians
Douglas Tingey  Member, The Council of Canadians
Kevin Rebeck  President, Manitoba Federation of Labour

11 a.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

Thank you to the panel members.

Ms. Fernandez, in your presentation it's my understanding that you question the value of the TPP agreement, and moreover in your presentation you also mentioned that TPP countries that Canada does not have an FTA with only make up 3% of Canadian exports and 5% of imports. What is your take on the argument that our absence on the TPP will weaken our leverage in NAFTA?

Question number two is we see the TPP taking us into the emerging markets, and into the ones that are part of the TPP, and there are other countries, emerging markets, that want to join the TPP. If we miss this opportunity, wouldn't it potentially prevent our taking advantage of those markets?

Please can you address those two questions.

11 a.m.

Errol Black Chair in Labour Issues, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives

Lynne Fernandez

Sure. Could I just ask you to clarify the first question because they sounded sort of the same to me?

11 a.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

What is your take on the argument that our absence from the TPP could weaken our leverage in NAFTA?

11 a.m.

Errol Black Chair in Labour Issues, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives

Lynne Fernandez

To the extent that you would think that or you would agree that everything that has happened under NAFTA has been a positive thing.... It hasn't necessarily been a net gain to Canada in NAFTA.

In terms of it leveraging, my question would be: would it leverage it in a positive way or leverage it in a negative way? There are some negative aspects to NAFTA as well, particularly in terms of the investor dispute mechanism.

In terms of whether we will benefit in these countries where we don't have much trade, I mean probably, and I want to be clear that I'm not against doing trade with these countries and I'm not against increasing trade for producers in Manitoba. I'm absolutely in favour of it.

Our concerns are the nature of this agreement in terms of the investor dispute mechanism, the patent protections, and the inability of government to protect labour and regional development.

I'm not trying to suggest that we shouldn't do trade or that we shouldn't open up these markets for our local producers. We should, but we need to be mindful of how we do it and we need to be mindful of the agreement in which we enter.

11 a.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

Basically, we make some changes to the agreement, so you are in favour of ratifying the TPP?

11 a.m.

Errol Black Chair in Labour Issues, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives

Lynne Fernandez

I'm in favour of doing trade and increasing opportunities for local producers, but I'm also in favour of protecting Canadian and Manitoban sovereignty. I'm in favour of making sure that we develop our country and our economy in a way that Canadians want and that does not just benefit the rights of corporations to extract some sort of economic rent. We have to be mindful of how it affects all of society, not just business.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

On the other hand, I'm a little confused. When we say that all the generic drugs are produced in India, with India not being part of the TPP, how is it going to negatively affect us from that perspective?

11:05 a.m.

Errol Black Chair in Labour Issues, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives

Lynne Fernandez

I'm sorry, I am not following....

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

Generic drugs are all produced in India. There are not many drugs that are produced in TPP countries. How will the TPP countries be negatively affected when it comes to all this medicare and pharmacare?

11:05 a.m.

Errol Black Chair in Labour Issues, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives

Lynne Fernandez

A lot of the research is done in the U.S. and Canada, right? If the generic drugs are produced in India, are you suggesting that they're not subject to the patent protection that we have here?

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC

That's right.

11:05 a.m.

Errol Black Chair in Labour Issues, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives

Lynne Fernandez

I don't know. That's not the way I understand it and that's not what the concerns have been of the experts I've consulted, so I'm not sure how to answer that question. I know that there are people looking into this who are very concerned about the patent protection.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you. Your time is up.

Mr. Van Kesteren, you have five minutes, sir.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

Thank you all for coming.

We've heard a consistent theme from business that this is an excellent opportunity for the western Prairie provinces specifically. We heard that even in Vancouver.

We also heard, and it's quite obvious, that the pulse growers, the grain growers, and anybody involved in agriculture is going to have an enormous opportunity for expansion and growth.

I want to talk about the processors. I want to talk about something I don't think we have talked about yet as a committee, and that is the manufacturing of the processing equipment. I would assume, and this is usually the case, it's the Germans, the Americans, and those big countries that have the capacity to do, maybe not the lion's share, but the technical end.

How much of the spinoff—I want to talk about the unguided hand—are you seeing here in the Prairie provinces, and how much of it is coming from southwestern Ontario, or Quebec for that matter, or anywhere else in the country?

11:05 a.m.

Senior Vice-President, Corporate Affairs and General Counsel, Richardson International Limited, Member, Western Grain Elevator Association

Jean-Marc Ruest

I think that what we've seen—and I'd welcome Chris's comments on it on the processing side as well—speaking from an operating company that builds plants and has been involved in the construction and development of processing facilities, the more of these things we do, the more local expertise and experience we develop.

You mentioned the fact that we have a lot of American and German pieces that come into a plant, whether it's a flour mill or a canola processing plant.

We in Canada deal with a number of unique commodities as well. A canola plant is generally grown in Canada. The commodity itself is grown in Canada, specific to Canada. It has properties that are such that its processing is a little bit unique.

You need to develop some expertise, and we have been developing expertise with respect to canola processing here in Canada, whether it's suppliers of equipment, pieces of knowledge, and so on. We're seeing that expand, and the increased capacity in the production and the value-added side of things is undoubtedly going to add to that inventory of capacity to allow that to happen.

11:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Oilseed Processors Association

Chris Vervaet

I don't know if I have that much more to add. In my experience in visiting some of the facilities we have, and our members operate, there certainly are many different components that go into the construction of a processing facility. As you pointed out, some of that material and equipment is sourced from places like Germany and places like the United States. In the facilities I've visited, and in speaking with some of the plant managers, there certainly is an element of sourcing local in terms of some of the infrastructure. Granary bins come to mind. Some of the granary equipment and storage facilities use Canadian-made steel and Canadian-made products to build some of that infrastructure. Again, it's a puzzle. There are lots of different pieces that come into that, but certainly there's a Canadian component. If we make more investments as a result of open markets and increased trade, there's going to be more of that activity as well.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

Those, of course, are jobs.

The other element I want to touch on quickly as well is transportation. We can produce, and we can do the processing. We have to get the product to the market. We saw it in the past. Our government was working hard to make it available for rail to get your product to the market. How important is it? If I remember correctly, one of the problems was that because of the Keystone pipeline not being able to be built, you had to share the capacity of the railroad with the oil industry. How important is it that we get those pipelines built, as far as your industry's concerned?

11:10 a.m.

Senior Vice-President, Corporate Affairs and General Counsel, Richardson International Limited, Member, Western Grain Elevator Association

Jean-Marc Ruest

Maybe Wade can add some detail, but what we have seen, which is unfortunate for the Canadian economy, I guess, is that when there's a drop in the transportation by rail of other commodities, including oil, we see a commensurate increase in capacity of rail service for grains and oilseeds. If there is a rebounding of production that needs to be moved, and if we expect that production to continue to be moved by rail, unless we see some significant change, we see that capacity as coming at the expense of grain and oilseed movement by rail.

Therefore, we have to increase capacity in some fashion, and that's either improving the rail capacity and/or finding another way to move oil.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you, Mr. Van Kesteren, for that time.

That wraps up this panel. I thank the witnesses for coming. We'll have all your comments in the report that we'll finalize later on this year.

Thanks again for coming, and have a good day.

For the committee, we have our witnesses here for the next panel, so we're only going to break for five minutes and get right back at it.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Order. If the MPs can take their seats, please, we'll be ready to go.

I see that all our witnesses are here. That's great. This is I think the third panel this morning. We're resuming our study and consulting with Canadians on the TPP, the trillion-dollar agreement that will affect everybody in Canada, whether you're selling or buying. It's a big agreement.

We're going to start right off with the Manitoba Beef Producers. We have two people here: Heinz Reimer and Maureen Cousins.

Mr. Reimer, you're going to start off. You have five minutes. Go ahead.

11:10 a.m.

Heinz Reimer President, Manitoba Beef Producers

First, good morning, and welcome to friendly Manitoba. As was mentioned, my name is Heinz Reimer. I'm president of Manitoba Beef Producers. I'm joined by our policy analyst Maureen Cousins. We'd like to thank the committee members for travelling to Manitoba to seek comments on the importance of the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement.

Manitoba Beef Producers represents approximately 7,000 individual Manitoba cattle producers, including cow-calf, backgrounding, and the finishing section. Our mission is to represent producers through communication, advocacy, research, and education, both within the industry and to governments, consumers, and others, and to improve prosperity and ensure a sustainable future.

In number of individual producers, the beef industry is the single largest livestock sector in Manitoba. We have Canada's third-largest beef herd, which represents approximately 11.8% of the cows in 2015. We are also the third-largest exporting province, behind Alberta and Ontario.

In recent years, the Manitoba beef industry has faced significant economic challenges, such as: BSE; trade disputes, such as the mandatory country-of-origin labelling dispute; and repeated adverse weather events, such as flooding. This has led to both a reduction in the size of our provincial herd and to fewer cattle producers on the Manitoba landscape. However, Manitoba beef producers are optimistic that new trade agreements such as the TPP can create opportunities for growth.

There is potential to increase cattle and beef production in Manitoba and to gain new entrants into our industry, if the conditions are right. Manitoba has large areas of natural grass well suited for cattle production. The improvement of cattle prices has stimulated renewed interest in our industry. Manitoba and partners, along with the provincial and federal governments, have made exciting investments in new research and extension with the establishment of the Manitoba beef and forage initiative from Brandon. This will enhance our beef production for generations to come.

Manitoba is now once again home to a federally inspected beef processing plant, Truth North Foods, out of Carman. This new federal slaughter capacity creates significant export opportunities direct from Manitoba to markets around the world.

As such, Manitoba Beef Producers is requesting that the Government of Canada swiftly ratify the TPP agreement. MBP, which is Manitoba Beef Producers, believes TPP brings with it significant benefits to the Canadian beef industry, providing enhanced market access to some of the world's fastest-growing economies in the Asia-Pacific region. Increased demand for cattle to supply these markets should benefit not only Manitoba producers but also Canadian producers, as businesses supply and service a growing cattle industry.

Of particular value in the TPP will be the reduction over time of Japan's 38.5% tariff on Canadian beef. It is essential that Canada be able to compete on an equal playing field with other countries in important trade markets like these. For example, being able to restore Canada's competitive position with Australia beef in the Japanese market is key to us. It is estimated that under TPP Canada could over time double or triple its beef exports to Japan. Without the TPP or the bilateral agreement with Japan, Canada could lose 80% of the value of our beef exports to Japan.

Further, the elimination of beef tariffs in Malaysia and Vietnam will also be beneficial going forward with potential to grow Canadian exports there.

Another possible advantage is that Korea has expressed interest in joining TPP, which will help speed up the tariff phase-out of Canadian beef.

The importance of exports from individual provinces such as Manitoba to TPP member nations cannot be overstated.

In the period 2012-14, Manitoba's agriculture and agrifood sector alone exported, on average, $3.3 billion in products annually to these countries.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Can you wrap it up, sir, if you don't mind?

11:25 a.m.

President, Manitoba Beef Producers

Heinz Reimer

It is very important that we see this going swiftly ahead. It will definitely benefit producers in Manitoba. Thanks again for the opportunity to speak.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you very much for coming. You must be getting into calving season, are you?

11:25 a.m.

President, Manitoba Beef Producers

Heinz Reimer

I am halfway through.