Evidence of meeting #4 for International Trade in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tpp.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Rémi Bourgault
Brian Kingston  Vice-President, International and Fiscal Issues, Business Council of Canada
Warren Everson  Senior Vice-President, Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Mathew Wilson  Senior Vice-President, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
Perrin Beatty  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Corinne Pohlmann  Senior Vice-President, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Good morning, folks. As usual we try to start on time. It's good to see everybody here.

This morning we're going to have two sections of presenters. I'm going to do 50 minutes for each segment because we have quite a few things we need to discuss in our last 15 minutes. We're going to have the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters and the Business Council of Canada for the first 50 minutes, and then we're going to go to the Chamber of Commerce and the Federation of Independent Business for the last 50 minutes. We're going to leave 15 minutes at the end to talk about some new business, just to give me a lay of the land of what we have on the table.

Without any further ado, we're going to start off with Brian Kingston—

Sorry?

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

I'm just curious. If Mr. Wilson isn't here, are there any other witnesses who could fill up the first hour in case Mr. Wilson shows up late?

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Mr. Hoback, if we finish earlier with Mr. Kingston we could take our new business and pump it in there, if you are willing.

8:45 a.m.

An hon. member

We're flexible.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

We'll stay busy. Good idea.

Mr. Van Kesteren.

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON

I do know he's on the Hill, so is there any way he can be contacted just in case there's been some confusion?

8:45 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Rémi Bourgault

I don't have a cellphone number so I'll try to—

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Okay, we'll be flexible.

Mr. Kingston, you have the floor. Thank you for coming.

Go ahead.

8:45 a.m.

Brian Kingston Vice-President, International and Fiscal Issues, Business Council of Canada

Mr. Chairman, committee members, thank you for the invitation to take part in your prestudy of the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

The Business Council of Canada represents the chief executives and entrepreneurs of 150 leading Canadian companies from all sectors and regions of the country. Our member companies employ 1.4 million citizens, account for more than half the value of the Toronto Stock Exchange, contribute the largest share of federal corporate taxes, and are responsible for most of Canada's exports, corporate philanthropy, and private sector investments in research and development.

We have recently changed our name. We were the Canadian Council of Chief Executives, just for those of you who hadn't noticed the name change.

Trade has long been a powerful engine of Canada's economy, and the Business Council is a strong proponent of Canada's participation in the TPP. In an era of slower global growth and increased volatility, it is critical that Canada do everything possible to create new economic opportunities and improve our long-term prosperity.

The TPP is a groundbreaking agreement that will support Canada's standard of living and create high-value jobs. If both the TPP and Canada's agreement with Europe were implemented, Canada's trade network would cover more than 60% of the global economy, giving Canadian companies preferential access to nearly 90% of existing export markets.

This would make Canada the only G7 nation with free trade access to the United States, the Americas, Europe, and the Asia-Pacific region, including three of the world's four largest economies. This wide-reaching trade agreement network would position Canada as a global export platform, attracting investment and jobs to communities across the country.

As with the North American Free Trade Agreement and pre-existing trade agreements, the TPP will spur innovation and productivity by giving Canadian companies new market opportunities, all while providing Canadian consumers with a wider variety of goods and services at more competitive prices.

There are three main reasons I'm going to go through today as to why TPP is critical to Canada's long-term economic prosperity.

First, Canada must diversify its trade relationships. According to the Bank of Canada the growth potential of emerging market economies is projected to be about four times that of the world's advanced economies. Emerging markets now account for 80% of global growth, but only 12% of our exports go directly to fast-growing emerging markets, while 85% go to slow-growing advanced economies.

If Canada's exposure to emerging markets matched that of the United States, demand for our exports would increase by $60 billion. Japan alone offers Canada significant new market potential as the country has an average MFN applied tariff of 4.2% and low import penetration, 21.9% of GDP. While Canada currently sells $4 billion of agrifood products to Japan—that's nearly 10% of our total agrifood exports—tariff reductions in the TPP will significantly boost our exports into that market.

Second, the TPP builds on the North American partnership. NAFTA is the cornerstone of Canada's international trade policy and is by far our most important trade agreement. Ratifying the TPP improves upon the North American platform that has driven Canada's economy since NAFTA's conclusion over 20 years ago. Even with the growth of emergent economies, the U.S. and Mexico are our most important markets in the TPP. As our largest and third-largest merchandise trade partners, nearly 78% of Canada's exports go to these two countries.

We must implement the TPP to deepen these strong commercial ties, enhance North American competitiveness, and ensure our countries are on the same footing when it comes to international trade standards. Failure to take part in a trade agreement with such important trading partners would be disastrous for Canadian companies integrated into North American supply chains. Whereas NAFTA has given Canada a leg up on global competition by building a strong North American platform, being left out of the TPP would see the erosion of that advantage to participant countries. Signing on ensures that Canada maintains strong relations with our North American partners.

Third and finally, the TPP sets a new standard in regional trade agreements. By setting reciprocal and forceful trade rules and establishing disciplines in key areas of interest to Canada, a high-standard TPP agreement will promote Canadian economic growth and jobs.

One example is in the services sector, which accounts for 13.6 million jobs and 70% of Canada's GDP. Canadian companies that excel at providing knowledge-intensive services, such as the financial services sector, will benefit from enhanced obligations covering a broad range of services. Through its potential expansion to new members the agreement will also provide the architecture for market-based rules to the growing economies in the Americas and Asia. For example, Indonesia and the Philippines have already indicated their intention to join the TPP. These two countries alone would add 354 million people to the TPP market and they would grow GDP by $1.17 trillion U.S.

With that I conclude my remarks and I'd be happy to take any questions.

Thank you very much.

8:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Mark Eyking

Thank you very much, Mr. Kingston. You represent a lot of our GDP, you and your group across this country. Thanks for being on time there.

We're probably going to do one round with you, Mr. Kingston.

I'm going to start off with Mr. Hoback. We'll have six minutes for the Conservatives.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Yes, sure.

Thank you, witness, for being here. It's the top of the morning to you for sure.

Could you give us just a little bit of background information on the consulting process that you went through in this agreement? Could you give us a little bit of a description of how well you are consulted and how you are involved throughout the entire process?

8:50 a.m.

Vice-President, International and Fiscal Issues, Business Council of Canada

Brian Kingston

Thank you for the question.

We found that the consultation process was quite thorough. The government, when they first indicated that they were entering into negotiations, were open to conversations and consultations. Throughout the process we've written letters to the minister, for example, stating our position. We've had the opportunity to consult with negotiators on a number of occasions as we've approached the conclusion.

From our perspective, it's been quite comprehensive.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

There are no secrets here. You were very aware of what was in the agreement as it was being negotiated and involved in the process all the way through. Is that fair to say?

8:55 a.m.

Vice-President, International and Fiscal Issues, Business Council of Canada

Brian Kingston

Absolutely.

The one thing I'll note is that any negotiation has to have a certain level of secrecy because you have to protect your negotiating position. While we knew the broad strokes of what was going on in the negotiations, of course, we had no knowledge of the actual closed door discussions between the countries. Frankly, that's the way it has to be during the end game in any negotiation.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Sure.

Again, this committee also had consultations in the previous government. I'm just curious. How many times has your association been in front of committee on this issue?

8:55 a.m.

Vice-President, International and Fiscal Issues, Business Council of Canada

Brian Kingston

On TPP...?

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Yes.

8:55 a.m.

Vice-President, International and Fiscal Issues, Business Council of Canada

Brian Kingston

I believe this is our third appearance on TPP, but we've probably mentioned it in multiple other committee appearances.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Okay.

You talked about low import penetration in Japan. What do you see for strategies there as far as getting that penetration and actually getting that market access? Would it be with or without the TPP?

8:55 a.m.

Vice-President, International and Fiscal Issues, Business Council of Canada

Brian Kingston

To get the market access into Japan...?

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Yes.

8:55 a.m.

Vice-President, International and Fiscal Issues, Business Council of Canada

Brian Kingston

TPP is absolutely critical to doing that. It will eliminate the tariffs, and then it will address things like non-tariff barriers. In the event that there was no TPP, we would hope that our bilateral agreement with Japan would advance and that would give us the access into the market.

But I think in the absence of a trade agreement it would be very difficult to envision Canada getting into that market in a real way.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

The business community here in Canada has some concerns on state trading enterprise, of course. What are your feelings on the negotiations and how we dealt with state trading enterprise?

8:55 a.m.

Vice-President, International and Fiscal Issues, Business Council of Canada

Brian Kingston

Yes, this is a groundbreaking chapter. We've never seen this before in a trade agreement. It's an early attempt at how you address SOEs. I think it's a bit too soon to tell how effective it will be, but I think it's important that Canada is a part of this because we're going to be shaping the rules going forward in the region on SOEs.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

You have those rules being shaped. I guess Vietnam would be one country that would come into consideration at this point in time. Lurking in the background is this government talking about negotiating a deal with China and trying to finish off that deal with India.

When you look at that, do you feel that TPP is a good starting point or a must starting point to launch off toward a China agreement or an agreement with India?