Evidence of meeting #16 for International Trade in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ceta.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Christine Lafrance
David Chartrand  Quebec Coordinator, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers
Mark Agnew  Vice-President, Policy and International, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Brad Chandler  Chief Executive Officer and President, Hensall District Co-Operative Inc.
Angella MacEwen  Co-Chair, Trade Justice Network

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair (Hon. Judy A. Sgro (Humber River—Black Creek, Lib.)) Liberal Judy Sgro

Good Monday morning to everyone.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, February 1, 2021, we continue our study of Bill C-18, an act to implement the agreement on trade continuity between Canada and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Today's meeting is being televised, and is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. I would like to take the opportunity to remind all participants that screenshots or taking photos of your screen are not permitted. To ensure an orderly meeting, I need to outline a few of the rules that I know you've heard before.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on your microphone icon to unmute yourself. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. As a reminder, all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

My apologies for last Friday, and not being able to get our meeting started when we had our witnesses there, but we're very pleased that you are able to be with us today.

We have Minister Ng, Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade.

As witnesses with her, we have, from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, Doug Forsyth, director general for market access and chief negotiator, Canada-United Kingdom trade continuity agreement—someone who's well-known to all of the committee. We also have Allison Trenholm, deputy chief negotiator, Canada-United Kingdom trade continuity agreement; and Torsten Ström, general counsel, trade law bureau.

From the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, we have Aaron Fowler, chief agriculture negotiator and director general, trade agreements and negotiations.

Welcome to all of you. Thank you for rearranging your schedules from last Friday to be with us today. We appreciate it very much.

We move on to Minister Ng for your opening statement, please.

February 22nd, 2021 / 11:05 a.m.

Markham—Thornhill Ontario

Liberal

Mary Ng LiberalMinister of Small Business

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Honourable members, thank you for giving me the opportunity to appear once again before the House Standing Committee on International Trade to speak on behalf of Bill C-18, an act to implement the trade continuity agreement, TCA, between Canada and the United Kingdom.

For Canada, international trade is central to our economic success and prosperity, and there is no doubt that trade will play a crucial role in our inclusive and sustainable recovery from COVID-19. This is why it is important for Canada not only to develop new trading relationships, but also to strengthen existing ties.

The U.K. is our largest trade market in Europe, and in 2019, it was the third-largest destination for Canadian merchandise exports worldwide. It is also a key source of innovation, science and technology partnerships. Two-way merchandise trade between Canada and the U.K. totalled $29 billion in 2019, making it our fifth-largest international partner. The U.K. is also Canada’s second-largest services trade partner, behind only the United States, amounting to exports of nearly $7.1 billion last year. The U.K. is Canada’s fourth-largest source of foreign direct investment, valued at $62.3 billion in 2019.

It is clear that our trade continuity agreement with the United Kingdom is critical to Canadian jobs by preserving a key enabler to our strong economic partnership—and that is CETA. The trade continuity agreement before you today ensures Canada and the U.K. can sustain and build upon our trade relationships by preserving the main benefits of CETA. As this agreement is based on CETA, a trade agreement Canadians are already familiar with, it will provide continuity, predictability and stability for Canadian businesses, exporters, workers and consumers. This is more important than ever as we all grapple with COVID-19.

Once the agreement is fully implemented it will carry forward CETA’s tariff elimination on 99% of Canadian products exported to the U.K. It will fully protect Canadian producers of all supply-managed products and maintain our priority market access for Canadian service suppliers, including access to the U.K. government’s procurement market, which is estimated to be worth approximately $118 billion annually. It will uphold and preserve CETA’s high standard provisions on labour, the protection of the environment and dispute settlement.

At the same time, while this agreement is largely a replication of CETA, it provides no new market access for dairy or any other supply-managed products. This outcome fulfills the commitment made by our government, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food to not concede any additional market access for supply-managed sectors in the trade agreements this government signs on to.

When it comes to the U.K., we have a particularly special connection and enjoy a robust trade and investment relationship. Canada and the U.K. enjoy a deep and historic relationship, and both sides are keen to work together to maintain our strong trading relationship post-Brexit to ensure stability and continuity for our businesses.

When the United Kingdom held a referendum and, guided by the decision of its citizens, decided to leave the European Union, that decision not only affected the U.K.’s trade and economic relations with its largest partner, but it also meant that the United Kingdom can no longer be a party to CETA with Canada. Obviously, this had the potential to affect Canadian companies, especially if the U.K. chose to re-evaluate its trade priorities.

That's why this trade continuity agreement is so important.

Canadian businesses and workers in many sectors rely on our interconnected trade relationship, from farmers to fish harvesters to innovators. They have told us that what they want the most at this time is stability. This agreement provides exactly that.

The TCA ensures that Canada and the U.K. can both sustain and build upon our important relationship by preserving the benefits of CETA on a bilateral basis, fully protecting our closely integrated supply chains.

Madam Chair, this continuity agreement is good for workers and for businesses. It's good for both Canada and the United Kingdom. Without the TCA in place, Canadian businesses would have faced the uncertainty of new barriers and higher costs of doing business, particularly our agriculture, fish and seafood industries. With this agreement we can build a better future for both countries.

The TCA includes a commitment for subsequent negotiations to begin within a year of this agreement coming into force. My U.K. counterpart, Secretary Truss, and I have publicly committed to these negotiations.

We will, of course, seek the input of Canadians on their interest in a new bilateral discussion with the United Kingdom. I am looking forward to hearing from Canadians from coast to coast to coast through public consultations. I'm looking forward to working towards a high-quality, modern and comprehensive agreement that includes ambitious chapters on the environment, women's economic empowerment, labour and digital trade.

To those who have pointed out areas where improvements are sorely needed, we hear you. I am eager to get to work on those issues. We will return to this House when we are ready to table negotiating objectives for this new ambitious effort.

Right now, while we work to ratify this agreement both in Canada and the United Kingdom, we have signed a memorandum of understanding between both countries so that trade can continue to flow while the agreement makes its way through domestic approvals.

The TCA will provide stability and will remain in place until a new agreement, which we aim to reach within three years, is ready.

To sum up, Madam Chair, this trade continuity agreement is like no other trade agreement Canada has negotiated. We've heard from Canadian businesses and industries, as well as provinces and territories, about the importance of maintaining a preferential trading relationship with the United Kingdom. The successful ratification of Bill C-18 will go a long way to minimizing disruptions for Canadian businesses at this critical time.

Throughout the ratification process, and once this agreement is in place, Canada will continue to support Canadian companies doing business with and in the U.K. and the EU through what I call a “team Canada” approach to trade.

This is critical to Canada's economic recovery and future prosperity. As we look to turn the corner and build back better, it will be even more important that we continue to provide Canadian businesses with as many options and opportunities as possible.

This agreement maintains crucial ties and preferential trade terms with one of Canada's key trade partners. It ensures that Canadian businesses do not face yet another disruption or challenge at this time. Indeed, if this agreement were not in place, it would be another setback that Canadian businesses cannot afford.

This is why I urge all members to consider the benefits of the TCA and of maintaining preferential trade with a key partner, and show their support for Canadian businesses and our exporters.

Madam Chair, let me conclude by saying that the trade continuity agreement with the United Kingdom is good for Canadians, good for the people of the United Kingdom, and good for the strong, mutually beneficial relationship that our nations have built over the past 150 years.

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

I have a point of order, Madam Chair. There isn't any interpretation right now.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

I'm sorry, Minister, could you just hold on for one second? I'm sorry.

Mr. Savard-Tremblay, was there a problem with the translation?

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

No, it's in French.

Wait, I think that it's because I disabled the original language. Sorry about that.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

All right.

I'm sorry, Minister.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

It could be my French, Monsieur Savard-Tremblay.

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Your French is very good. Don't worry.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Thank you.

Madam Chair, may I just conclude?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Please do.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Okay.

While CETA will continue to govern Canada-EU trade, this continuity agreement will provide predictability and remove uncertainty for Canadian businesses doing business with and in the U.K.

I'm thrilled to have the support of Canadian business and industry for the quick ratification of Bill C-18. These are organizations such as the Business Council of Canada, the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters, and the Canadian Association of Importers and Exporters.

When it comes to the critical nature of Bill C-18, I would like to quote the shared statement from these businesses directly:

...we ask all parties to support the ratification of the Trade Continuity Agreement by quickly passing Bill C-18. Doing so would protect thousands of Canadian jobs and provide stability and certainty for workers, employers and investors. Without an agreement, $2 billion worth of bilateral trade will be at risk.

I look forward to working with all of my colleagues on all sides of the House to ensure a smooth continuity of Canada-U.K. trade relations and, in the near future, working toward further deepening this important trade relationship for the benefit of all Canadians.

Thank you. I look forward to your questions and our discussion.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much, Minister. We appreciate that.

We will now go to questions.

Mr. Aboultaif, you have six minutes, sir.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Good morning to all.

Thanks, Minister, for appearing today.

A memorandum of understanding, MOU, is not a legally binding agreement. It is used between parties where they cannot apply a legal commitment in situations where they cannot reach or create a legally enforceable agreement. What we have in front of us you call a TCA. It's an MOU. Were you able to achieve any kind of commitment, a legally binding one, on the agreement that we have in front of us here in order to be able to secure a full agreement in three years?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

The legally binding agreement will be the ratification of this trade continuity agreement, which I am looking forward to all of us as parliamentarians working on on behalf of Canadian businesses and exporters. The agreement, of course, does include a commitment for both sides to return to the negotiating table upon a year of this agreement's ratification and coming into force. I look forward to doing that. I certainly look forward to speaking to Canadians. Our commitment is to arrive at concluding those agreements within a three-year time frame. That is our commitment. We're looking forward to doing this work with Canadians.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

If I understand correctly, the ratification of this agreement on our side and on the United Kingdom side is the legal, binding term. Is that correct?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

The coming into force of the trade continuity agreement would mean that Canadian businesses would continue to enjoy the high standards that are the provisions in CETA, whether they are environmental standards or labour standards or opportunities for our businesses to get access to that market.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

We are looking for the security. Where is the security in that?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Well, this agreement, my honourable member, replicates the CETA agreement with the U.K. leaving the European Union. The ratification of this agreement is something that I am looking forward to working with everyone on so that those provisions for CETA continue on a bilateral basis with the United Kingdom with the ratification and the passage of this important piece of legislation in our Parliament.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

CETA is a comprehensive agreement. This is a memorandum of understanding. Don't you see any difference between the two?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

A memorandum of understanding that we have negotiated with the United Kingdom ensures that trade will flow continuously and without disruption in paperwork. It's really important that the trade continuity agreement that is before us today and that has been through Parliament and that continues to work through the legislative process gets the ratification from all of the work that you and all of us are doing to ensure that the provisions of CETA will continue on a bilateral basis between Canada and the U.K. We are looking forward to getting back to the negotiated agreement so that we can pursue a new negotiation with the United Kingdom on a more ambitious comprehensive agreement after we've had an opportunity to also speak to Canadians.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Well, the flow of business, the continuity of business, is going to be subject to how much security you have, how much of a term you have on this agreement.

We're going to have live with it for four years: one year—this year—to be able to come back to the table, and then three years after that to be implemented or to be in place. Am I correct on the time here?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Let me clarify. The trade continuity agreement between Canada and the United Kingdom preserves the terms of CETA so that Canada and the United Kingdom have a bilateral agreement on the basis of CETA. A memorandum of understanding was signed between the two countries to ensure that when the United Kingdom left the European Union on January 1, the benefits of that agreement would continue without disruption for Canadian businesses and the businesses in the United Kingdom.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Would you be able to refer me to any page or an article in the MOU that explains that?

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I am happy to have officials provide you with that information.

As a point of clarification, again, we are working on the—I hope—continued speedy passage of Bill C-18, which is the legislation that will give into force the continuity agreement between Canada and the U.K. so that the provisions of CETA continue.

Let me just remind you of some of the benefits of CETA over the last two years of CETA's entry into force. Canadian merchandise exports to the EU, including the U.K., averaged $46.6 billion in 2018. That was up 16.6% compared to pre-CETA levels.

This agreement is really important to Canadian businesses and exporters. We're looking forward to working with members on all sides of the House, so that we can all ensure that Canadian businesses and exporters continue to have the benefits of this important agreement.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you, Minister.

We will go on to Mr. Arya for six minutes.