International Trade Committee on June 11th, 2021

[Aaron Fowler]

There's not much to add, and thank you very much for the opportunity.

The impact of this bill, to a certain degree, depends on how our trading partners and prospective negotiating partners choose to react to it. How they choose to react to it, I think, will be at least in part a function of the commercial interest and importance that they attach to their dairy and poultry sectors. It's a bit difficult to say to what extent it might impact on trade policy objectives or considerations beyond supply management, because to a certain degree, that depends on the response of our trading partners to this piece of legislation.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Mr. Fowler, you mentioned that we must be watching the trading partners. Could you please tell the committee which trading partners you are watching and which ones we should be focusing on?

[Doug Forsyth]

Maybe I could start, and then, Aaron, if you would like to add anything, please do.

For sure, whoever we're negotiating with watches what's going on in Canada very closely. I know that our counterparts in the United Kingdom watched all of the hearings from last fall all the way through April with great interest. What they heard was reflected back to me very much at the negotiating table, so they were watching very closely.

I can imagine that as we plan to move forward with other trading partners, whether Ukraine or Indonesia and ASEAN countries, they will all have a keen interest in following all of the things that are going on in Canada, as we would do, frankly, and as our missions in various countries would do with countries with which we are negotiating.

As a negotiator, you want to have at hand as much information as possible about your opponent. Anything you can have that would impact or influence your negotiating position and what you say and do at the negotiating table would be important to have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Mr. Forsyth.

We will move on to Mr. Savard-Tremblay for two and a half minutes, please.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Madam Chair, I am going to let Mr. Perron ask the question.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I thank my colleague.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Once again, I thank the witnesses for being with us to provide an impartial opinion, as public servants. It is as such that I would like them to answer my questions.

We hear a lot of people say that we have to reserve access to other products and that protecting supply management by a law would limit the negotiating mandate. However, the politicians all say that they don't want to touch supply management.

Is that not a contradiction? Are we not lying to ourselves a little when we say that we have to keep our cards in our pockets, at the same time promising they will not be touched?

I would like to have your objective opinion as a public servant on this subject, Mr. Forsyth.

[Doug Forsyth]

Madam Chair, I can start and then I might turn to my colleague to see if he has anything further to add.

From a trade negotiator's perspective, I always want to have as many options as possible when I am sitting across the table from—

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to time to be suspended, because we don't have interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Forsyth, I'm sorry. There was a translation problem. Would you start the answer again, please?

[Doug Forsyth]

Is it my mike, or is it translation? I can hold the mike closer.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

It's just the interpretation, Mr. Forsyth.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Try it again, please.

[Doug Forsyth]

I'll start again, and then perhaps my colleague will want to add to that.

When I approach this question, it's more from a trade negotiator perspective. As a trade negotiator, I like to have all of the tools in my tool box, as it were. I like to have everything at my disposal, even though in the back of my mind I know what I can and cannot do.

When I launch the negotiations, I want to be able to have as wide a discussion as possible, knowing that as we approach the finalized agreement, it will be much narrower.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Forsyth.

Your answer suggests to me that essentially, you can promise anybody anything and then go and negotiate, realize that you can't keep your promise, and repeat the negotiating scenario from the last three agreements. That's what I'm hearing.

I would like to know what you think about the argument that it would attract attention to supply management.

It's a pretty crazy argument, that the effect of protecting the supply management system with a law will be to attract attention to the system. In the negotiations for the last three agreements, there was in fact no law that protected supply management, and there were major concessions. There is even talk of precedents.

I would like to note, for the committee's records, that the first concession was made under a Conservative government. Some people might therefore want to choose their words carefully when they are making statements.

Apart from that, with respect, I would like to know whether...

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you, Mr. Perron, but unfortunately your time is up.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Madam Chair, can we have ten seconds for the answer and the interpretation?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes.

[Doug Forsyth]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll try to respond to the question I think I heard, but if not, I apologize in advance.

Yes, concessions were given in CETA, in CPTPP and in CUSMA. As I mentioned earlier, those concessions were given after thorough analysis and a lot of internal debate about whether or not they should be made. It was deemed to be in the economic interest of Canada to go ahead and make those concessions. That's why. Those decisions were not taken lightly and they were not taken without a great deal of thought and analysis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Blaikie, you have two and half minutes, please.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In view of the answer that Mr. Perron got, if he has other questions to ask, I will be happy to yield my speaking time.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

You yield your speaking time to me, Mr. Blaikie! That is very nice of you. Thank you.

We are told that concessions were made because it was thought to be advantageous. I can imagine so, but the fact is that in the future, if the supply management system is subject to more concessions, it will end up ceasing to function.

I am now going to address the question of the cultural exception, the importance of which the parliamentary secretary reminded us of earler. I am thrilled to hear culture being discussed. I want to assure my colleague that if we are to pass laws to give culture more protection, the Bloc Québécois will be ready, as in fact it already is, in the case of Bill C-10. I will now end that aside. Still, that proves that we can protect certain sectors.

I want to come back to my original question and ask Mr. Fowler about this. There is talk about blocking other accesses, but I would like him to tell me how he interprets the fact that Canadian beef, in particular, cannot enter Europe at present, while European cheese can enter Canada.

[Aaron Fowler]

I'm sorry; the question was cut off. I did not hear the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Perron, would you please repeat the question?

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Yes, certainly.

Mr. Flowler, the argument is often made that it is necessary to preserve access for other products to be shipped abroad. Obviously, the producers who are subject to supply management are a bit tired of being used as bargaining chips. That said, I would like you to tell me about beef.

How is it that Canadian beef cannot enter Europe, while European cheese can enter Canada? That is the concrete example of a trade that is not working. I would like to hear your comments on that.

[Aaron Fowler]

Thank you very much for the question.

Canadian beef does have access to the European market. Market access is provided under the CETA. Additional market access was created under the Canada-U.K. Trade Continuity Agreement to account for the departure of the United Kingdom from the European Union. We are aware, and we continue to work with the industry in Canada to ensure that Canada has a supply of beef that's able to meet the technical and food safety requirements of the European Union. We continue to work with the European Union to encourage them to ensure that their system reflects a scientific basis and a rules-based approach.

Beef access is provided under the CETA. At the time the CETA was concluded, I think it was seen as a balanced outcome both from an overall perspective and from the standpoint of agricultural market access.