International Trade Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Where I'm headed with the question is just to try to figure out where these issues get resolved. The Canadian government has been working to try to satisfy Canadian cattle producers that they're getting the access that was promised under CETA for a couple of years now. That's not coming. Wouldn't the resolution actually properly occur at the negotiating table?

[Claire Citeau]

You would think so.

Part of the problem is that these are very technical issues. When you talk about the timely approval of biotech traits or the need for predictable science-based import processes and the recognition of beef processing systems, there have been a number of CETA mechanisms to address these. Unfortunately, while discussions have taken place, they have not delivered sufficient positive outcomes to date, which is why we have engaged the ministers. Minister Bibeau has been doing her own advocacy, and Minister Ng as well—

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

In terms of Canada's advocating with our Europan partners, or in this case our partners in the United Kingdom, we heard at committee on Friday that Canada had essentially walked away from negotiating this agreement between March 2019 and August of this year.

Do you think it would have been advisable for the Canadian government to have continued to engage in conversations with folks in the U.K. on these issues and what a resolution might have looked like in a Canada-U.K. trade agreement instead of leaving it until August of this year?

[Claire Citeau]

I think I will respond to that by saying that what our members advocate for, what CAFTA advocates for, is the elimination of tariff and non-tariff barriers, a level playing field with our competitors, liberal rules of origin and an environment that addresses problems and truly enables growth. Traditionally, this has been addressed through ambitious comprehensive FTAs, not limited agreements.

Recognizing that the circumstances of Brexit are quite unique, we really put the honours in the hands of the negotiators and the government to deliver on the best means to reach the end, which is the elimination of tariff and non-tariff barriers to allow our members to grow.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Fair enough. I mean, I've heard through testimony on a number of trade agreements, including in the context of this agreement, that Canada's been very ambitious at opening up its markets to foreign exporters in exchange for market access that often doesn't materialize for Canadian exporters.

We've heard all our witnesses talk to the nature of this as a transitional agreement and the importance of ironing out other details in a permanent agreement. We heard on Friday that there is no end date on this agreement. There is no expiration date. That means Canada will have no leverage in getting our U.K. partners back to the negotiating table. I'm wondering if each witness could tell us—just very briefly, because I'm running out of time—whether they support having some kind of sunset clause in the transitional agreement. Whether it be a two-year or five-year sunset clause, it would be some kind of date that would require both parties to come back to the negotiating table.

We can start with Ms. Citeau and then go through the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Be very brief, please.

[Claire Citeau]

I think I would really stick to the commitment made by the PMs and the trade ministers to come back to the table within 2021.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Campbell.

[Kim Campbell]

Although it would make sense to have a “hard down”, I have to be honest that the last year or so around these trade agreements has wrecked havoc on importers. It would depend on the clarity of the text. I can tell you that we went into CUSMA weeks before with no regulations and no clarity about what the documentation was. For that reason, I'm a little hesitant to say have a “hard down”. I think as long as there's predictability, transparency and ease of use for business, I could concur with that, but just in the last year we didn't get that. Then we careened into having to implement CUSMA in a very difficult way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Closner, just quickly, please.

[Robert Closner]

Similar to Ms. Campbell, I think predictability is the vital element here. I think the more predictability, the better. I would be supportive of a drop-dead date that would give that predictability.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Mr. Irvine.

[Geoff Irvine]

I would agree that [Technical difficulty—Editor] predictability [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Aboultaif.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you to all of the witnesses. Good morning, or good afternoon, wherever you exist.

We heard last week from the department, from the government, about the transitional agreement that is almost a replica of the CETA, but we don't know what kind of replica. I also heard personally from the industry, specifically the beef industry, dairy producers and the canola and wheat industries. They all have concerns over the existing CETA.

Ms. Citeau, you had a little consultation with the government or the department on this new transitional agreement. Do you believe we are to carry the same problems from the CETA to this agreement? If you could be specific, I would like to hear your comments on canola, beef and dairy producers.

[Claire Citeau]

I cannot speak to dairy, as we don't represent them. In beef certainly, and perhaps pork, yes, they do have concerns about non-tariff barriers at this point.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

What about canola?

[Claire Citeau]

Canola has not flagged any particular issues on the U.K. front. They have their own set of issues with respect to access to the EU 27 at this point—amongst others, the need to have their farmers' sustainability practices recognized. We have to see what will transpire with respect to the U.K. market.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Therefore, you don't have any idea whether this is going to be the same problem that the industry would face or is going to be resolved based on the consultations you've gone through.

[Claire Citeau]

No, not at this point.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

What about the beef producers? In CETA, we know that primary producers have, at their cost, a certified veterinarian come to audit the farm and the feedlot. Do you believe that is also coming through to this new agreement?

[Claire Citeau]

I will leave it to our beef members, who I understand are to appear later this afternoon, to provide the specifics, but I will reiterate that there are some concerns on the beef side about non-tariff barriers being replicated with the U.K. market, in particular at a time when the EU and the U.K. continue to send products to the Canadian markets.

Rolling over the terms of a deal that is not being respected by another trading partner certainly is complex. I will defer to them to provide more specifics.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

As far as concessions are concerned, you don't know if any concessions have been given on this in order to be able to sign this transitional agreement sooner than December 31, or January 1, 2021.

With the rush in it, do you believe any concessions have been given in that regard? Do you have any idea?

[Claire Citeau]

No.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

On the sunset clause, if we're to assess this agreement and look at the U.K., if the U.K. is very comfortable with this agreement, it could take two, three or four years before there is a final agreement that we would all like to see. Therefore, a sunset clause in this agreement would definitely be beneficial to Canada.

Do you know if there is any discussion on that or if that was part of what you talked to the department or to the government on?