International Trade Committee on Nov. 27th, 2024

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you both very much for that.

Considering the volatility of this, of course, unionized work is paramount to many of the workers who are putting their blood, sweat and tears into this industry. They need to know that, in the instance when they lose their job, their union will be there to protect them.

I appreciate both of you for answering those questions.

The last time U.S. tariffs were imposed on your industry—just recently, in August, they went up to 14%—how many people were laid off in your associations or your businesses?

[Greg Stewart]

No one was laid off after the increase to 14%. We had already made decisions previously to reduce one of our mills to one shift due to the overall economic conditions, including the duties.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you for that. It's an incredible feat that management and labour can jointly come together on these kinds of decisions that protect good-paying jobs and protect people on the shop floor.

I appreciate that answer.

Mr. Samray.

[Jean-François Samray]

It's probably around the same kind of thing.

Forest fires have a bigger impact than the tariffs. People are reducing the number of shifts and are sharing the job. We need to realize that some of the families at the sawmills, just like Greg's, are there for a sixth generation. They know everyone. Their kids are playing with everyone, so they'd better share the job. There's community management that is done. I guess that's where we are for the time being. There are multiple factors, with the forest fires and the tariffs.

On top of that, I would say the delay in government support to solve the housing crisis is lagging behind the demand where it should be to solve the social crisis.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you, both.

How much time do I have, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 57 seconds.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses again.

I think it's been clearly put out there that these jobs are very much worth defending. These jobs are critical to rural communities. They're critical to indigenous communities, and they're critical to provinces, from Quebec all the way to British Columbia. I think that point is very clear from both of you today, and it will certainly be found within our report.

I will just conclude. I don't have enough time for a question, but I would like to propose a thought for my next round of questioning, since I have limited time. If you can keep this question in mind, by the time we come back around, I hope we can have a fulsome response.

Relative to your recommendations, how can we move forward in this instance, particularly in our relationships with premiers and other jurisdictions? That will be my next question.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We'll move next to Mr. Martel for five minutes.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here today. We are happy to see them.

Mr. Samray, if the trade negotiations remain blocked or remain at an impasse, what will be the long-term consequences be for rural communities and the workers who are directly dependent on the forest sector?

[Jean-François Samray]

It is always a pleasure to see you again, Mr. Martel.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you.

[Jean-François Samray]

My answer will be complex, because your question is not simple.

In fact, the consequences will depend on the demand for the product. In a market where demand is higher than supply, the buyer pays the tax: if they want the product, they have to pay the price. In a market where demand is dropping, as was the case over the last two years because of mortgage rates and government decisions, the producer pays the tax. That has repercussions. What we are seeing take shape is a market in which mortgage rates are low, because inflation has been brought under control.

As well, if there is an industry support program, I think it is really the consumer who will pay the tax. That would give us some momentum for facing the tariff increase in the coming year.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Samray, do you think that the fact that there has been no agreement on lumber for several years, as you are know all too well, has undermined Quebec forest producers' confidence in the federal government?

[Jean-François Samray]

I would say that what has been undermined is the concern of the bankers who examine the projects brought to them.

If a dispute is settled quickly, but the outcome is bad for the industry, that is obviously very serious for it. I think that in order to settle the dispute, the government is going to have to ask the other party to show up, things will have to get moving, and there will have to be negotiations. There may have been delays up to now, but now we need a solution. However, the solution must benefit both Canada and American consumers.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

The situation must be surely be wearing the industry and its dynamism down.

If the 25% tariffs that have been mentioned were to be imposed, what urgent, concrete measures will the federal government have to put in place to protect jobs and support the forest industry in Quebec?

[Jean-François Samray]

Mr. Martel, today is November 17, so I would say the government has two months to get going. I think the threat to impose these tariffs is a message; it is the stick. I don't think it is the long-term solution that the person who has threatened to impose these tariffs is after.

So there are two months left to find solutions that will address what is being called for. It will be two months of intense work for the federal and provincial governments, in order to respond to those demands and not have tariffs like this for the entire Canadian economy.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

In 2023, after doing a study, our committee tabled a report containing seven recommendations for settling the lumber dispute. Despite the government's oral agreement, nothing concrete has been done.

Do you think this inaction reflects the low priority that the federal government puts on the communities outside urban areas and the forest industry in Quebec?

[Jean-François Samray]

I can't answer for the government, but we definitely need to see more activity. A new American government is coming. It is time for Canada's negotiating team, but also for the provinces, to work with the embassy to establish contacts. We have to work with buyers of Canadian products to show that the welfare of American consumers depends on the support of the wood and cardboard and all the other products that come from the Canadian forest sector. We have always been a solution for them. It is high time to reactivate the networks and be very visible. Honestly, I don't know what I am doing in Quebec City, because we should be all together in Washington to do this work.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Yes.

Mr. Samray, as—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

You have 15 seconds left.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

It is impossible for me to ask a question in 15 seconds.

Thank you, Mr. Samray.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We have Mr. Arya, please, for five minutes.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses. Their answers and the information they are providing are quite interesting. I'm glad to know that the average salary of people working in the softwood lumber industry is between $70,000 and $100,000. As Mr. Samray said, that is equal to almost $300,000 in Toronto. I'm quite honestly surprised with the frank answers, though, when you were asked whether the latest duty, going up to 14%, resulted in any layoffs. Both of you indicated that that was not the case, but there's normal layoff due to forest fires and overall economic conditions.

Mr. Stewart, I don't know if your company is public. Were you profitable last year?

[Greg Stewart]

No, my company is not public.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Okay.