International Trade Committee on June 6th, 2022

[Peter MacArthur]

Thank you very much for that question.

Indeed, that is something we monitor very closely, Madam Chair. I'm happy to report that over the past several years, the Mining Association of Canada has been developing, directly with the Chamber of Mines of the Philippines and in a very methodical manner, the introduction of the “Towards Sustainable Mining” protocol for corporate social responsibility with leading mining companies. I've been involved through webinars throughout the pandemic in the introduction of this new approach to support environmental, labour and community relations. Indeed, this is in response to President Duterte's essentially closing down the sector when he was elected in 2016, until, as he said, Australian and Canadian corporate social responsibility protocols were adopted. That is, indeed, happening. These past few months, external auditors have been trained to ensure that this is done.

As the mining sector opens up for the critical minerals needed for renewable energy—for example, nickel, cobalt, copper and gold—I can assure you that Canadian firms.... B2Gold won an award just in the past couple of years for its exemplary treatment of workers and so forth.

Some of what is appearing in the media is not completely correct. Our job is to meet with companies and see how they're doing.

We are very conscious of some of the criticism that's being launched at the Philippines. Much of it responds to artisanal, informal mining sector operations by local Filipino companies or by companies from other countries, such as China, where those responsibilities are not being taken fully in the spirit of the need to be corporately responsible.

There have been mining accidents in the past. Legislation has been adopted by the Philippines congress to prevent those accidents. Some of them in the past decades have involved foreign companies, including Canadian companies, but corrective measures have been taken. I'm pleased to say that Canadian industry is stepping up and helping not only Canadian firms, but other foreign firms operating in this country.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chi-Hung Liu, when we talk about trade with the Indo-Pacific region, it immediately brings to mind the well-known Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, or CPTPP. Not long ago, I met with some representatives of your office, some of your colleagues. They expressed concern about China’s potential membership in this partnership and the consequences this might have for Taiwan in this trading area.

Could you tell us a little bit more about that today?

[Henry Chi-Hung Liu]

Thank you for the questions.

Our concern is more about how the case of Taiwan can be taken. Regarding the case, I think Taiwan, just like Canada, would welcome any country and any economy to participate in the CPTPP as they are committed to high standards. We are hoping. We submitted our application last September. Six months have already passed, so of course I think Taiwan is very interested to know our progress. We hope that our case will be handled very professionally based on the merits of our applications.

In fact, we have done more in advance than most other applicants. For example, we have already amended our law even though we are not starting our negotiations yet. We are doing this to show our commitments. So far, we are still wondering when our case will be taken. We're just trying to make sure our case is not overly politicized. We hope that all of the members of CPTPP will live up to their commitment to welcome any country members and economies that are willing to satisfy compliance with the high standards of CPTPP.

Thank you.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Do you think you are in a good position to join the CPTPP?

[Henry Chi-Hung Liu]

Yes, of course. We have revealed all of the details of the agreements. That's why we engaged in these law amendments. As members of Parliament, you know how difficult it is to pass any law amendments. We did this even several years ago. Once the CPTPP concluded, we studied it very carefully. We wanted to compare what the provisions are and if we lived up to the standards. We passed 22 amendments to make sure that we are able to.

On the market-access commitment, even with agriculture-exporting countries, we have already committed more than 99.5% of our market. I believe that, according to the standard of other CPTPP countries, I believe that Taiwan is one of the most committed members.

Thank you.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Masse, you have six minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

First, to Mr. MacArthur, I just want to get the status. There have been some issues raised about the Philippines with regard to human rights—everything from how they're dealing with organized crime and a number of different things. Also, in terms of Canada, in 2019 and before that, we were dumping garbage in the Philippines. This required the president to actually call Canada out on this, and the garbage was shipped back to Canada.

Could you just confirm whether or not we've ceased and desisted on that? We had an international treaty before the Basel agreement, which we were not enforcing through a clause. I'm just curious as to whether or not that still lingers as an issue for our country.

[Peter MacArthur]

Madam Chair, in answer to the question, I'm pleased to report that the garbage issue was resolved three years ago, almost exactly, through interaction and negotiation between our two governments and through the embassy here. After the private dispute, all acts of recourse were exhausted. You will recall that the Canadian exporter was bankrupt and there was a technical legal issue going on between private parties. Finally, when the two governments were allowed to come to solve the issue, we solved it. So to answer your question, there have been no further repercussions. The Basil agreement is in force, and I'm not aware of any plastic issues in this country from any foreign suppliers, so that is done.

Also, on human rights, I'm happy to report, as well, that Canada continues, through our [Technical difficulty—Editor] agenda, to press quietly behind closed doors—often with like-minded countries—the need to enforce respect for human rights. It's a lot of what we do. I was just at an event yesterday in support of human rights publicly with NGOs and the Commission on Human Rights, which is a body of the Government of the Philippines.

However, the United Nations has signed a joint program on human rights with the Philippines government involving the justice secretary and the foreign secretary. I was at a briefing by the UN just a few days ago, and there are six working groups, including one on violation by police of human rights. There are court cases starting against individual police. This is the big change. The Philippines will be in Geneva in the coming months to face down UPR and other UN Humans Rights Council initiatives.

So they're very much in play and I'm happy to see that the United Nations—of which we are, of course, members—is reinforcing the charge to make sure that people are accountable. In fact, two UN rapporteurs will be visiting the Philippines, which is something that hasn't happened for many years. The government here is opening up to, for example, taking more of a mental health and human rights approach to narcotics difficulties that the country is facing.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's good to hear.

If we're going to raise the expectations of the Philippines to deal with some of those issues we are concerned about, I guess what I want to have is reassurances about other Canadian companies' investment and the government being more proactive, because we shouldn't be shipping.... That was terribly embarrassing that we were caught and that we had to actually subsidize the return of garbage. We shouldn't have been doing it anyway, for so many different reasons.

What assurances do we have that there's going to be more of a proactive approach to Canadian companies and businesses that want to exploit weaknesses in trade agreements, or a lack thereof, for this type of activity? I think if we're going to have expectations, then they should have expectations of us.

[Peter MacArthur]

Certainly. As I said, corrective action has been taken. We're more vigilant. Various departments on both sides of the Pacific are involved. I can say that when I was ambassador to Indonesia, foreign countries other than Canada were exporting plastic garbage, against regulations, to Indonesia, so this is a practice that, unfortunately, has occurred. This controversy, this problem, has resulted in people paying much more attention to the issue, so I don't see any risk of this further approaching.

I can say that Canada has a very positive profile—one of the best I've seen—here in the Philippines in terms of its corporate social responsibility and our companies here right across the board in services and in goods production. Some are moving here. Businesses under the “China plus one” strategy, which includes an operation in China but also a second operation somewhere else in the ASEAN, often choose the Philippines because of its labour force and its democracy.

It's good to see that on human rights—for example, gender equality and LGBTQI rights—relative to other countries, being in a democracy with a strong NGO sector and a vibrant media, Canadian companies are functioning here quite successfully without any of those types of issues. That was a bad case, but lessons have been learned from it, and there's been no further—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I only have limited time. I have one last, quick question, if I have time, Madam Chair.

We have a tremendous Filipino diaspora here, and there's probably more work that can be done to engage them, in terms of economic development on both sides. Is that fair to say? I think it's underutilized. That's just my opinion...from the work I've done over the last number of years. I think this is one of the exciting opportunities we have on both sides.

[Peter MacArthur]

Madam Chair, I totally agree. It's a very good point.

Thousands of students are coming to Canada from the Philippines, and many are immigrating to Canada. They are a generational investment. They will become business people, scientists and industrialists, and they will know each other's countries: Canada and the Philippines.

I think it's a very good investment in the relationship, and there will be some return positive benefits, but it will take a generational impact.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Martel, you have five minutes.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being with us today.

Mr. Chi‑Hung Liu, my colleague just discussed the importance of microchips with you. This is indeed a critical geopolitical issue, but we know that China is constantly threatening Taiwan’s security.

How do you think China will view Taiwan’s membership in the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership?

[Henry Chi-Hung Liu]

Thank you for the question.

It's really difficult to answer. Rather, I don't think I can answer for the other persons—how they perceive our entry. I would say that, regardless of how the other applicants perceive it, we have to proceed on our own merits. I hope all the members can do that, as well.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Can’t you give me your impression? I know you can’t answer for them, but surely you have some idea.

[Henry Chi-Hung Liu]

I think my feelings, like every Taiwanese.... We are from a very small economy. We are always doing things that are very challenging. For example, I have been posted in Geneva, at our WTO mission, for six years. We still, even as a member, don't take everything as granted, because, though we are already members, we are always trying to fight for an equal right.

This has been the culture in Taiwan. We believe in equal rights not only in the international arena. What we can do, controlling our hands, is to make sure that Taiwan is a country of equality. We respect the gender issue, women's issues and SMEs. We want to make sure that we reflect the core values and, hopefully, gain more support from others. I think that's more important.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chi-Hung Liu, I would like to know how you think Taiwan’s membership in the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership would benefit Canadian businesses.

[Henry Chi-Hung Liu]

I would say that, currently, we are very complementary economies, because Taiwan is an agricultural importing country. Currently, agricultural products still face the highest import barriers. On the other hand, if we look to the future, however, I would say that Taiwan is also a net-energy importing country. We import 98% of our energy. We have been importing not only coal and petrol, but also RNG.

I believe that, in the future, Canada can be a source of clean energy for Taiwan. For example, your hydrogen development would be another potential area. As I mentioned about the renewables, as Taiwan develops its EV industry, I believe Canada has everything to offer when it comes to what Taiwan can use.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I’d like to ask you another question, Mr. Chi-Hung Liu. What you have to say is interesting.

First, what can Canada do to ensure that Taiwan joins the CPTPP?

[Henry Chi-Hung Liu]

Yes, the CPTPP is an organization based on consensus. No single member can do anything or counter anything. Canada is a country I value very much. I don't think you are trying to be the leading power, but you want to be the glue of consensus.

Canada has been very good. For example, in the Ottawa Group at the WTO, Canada has been the most vocal in really helping the WTO from stopping.... You are making the WTO agenda [Inaudible—Editor].

It's the same way with the CPTPP. I think Canada can work with other like-minded members to make sure everybody can work on the same basis to support Taiwan.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chi-Hung Liu, again, what role do you think Canada can play in protecting Taiwan’s western interests?

[Henry Chi-Hung Liu]

I think I can only answer in economic terms. Making Taiwan secure and strong will make others strong as well. The specialty of Taiwan's industry is not that we can make everything ourselves. In fact, Taiwan's specialty is that we enable others to make things. When you're using Apple or when you're using something else, it's Taiwan that's helping other countries. For example, Lululemon uses fabric from Taiwan. Taiwan is the largest supplier. We are not good at selling Lululemon clothes, but we are very good at helping Lululemon be successful.

For other industries it's the same. I believe we can do this by keeping our economic ties very strong.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry, Mr. Martel—