International Trade Committee on May 5th, 2026

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

Yes.

[Souad Elmallem]

It's important not to generalize. I have been managing projects in Africa since 2005 and I have never seen any corruption. I have never witnessed anything like that. So I cannot talk about something of which I have no knowledge. Perhaps it's a matter of attitude. If you seem to be corruptible, people may come and corrupt you. However, if your attitude shows that you are not corruptible, the issue won't come up. That's my experience anyway.

Africa has 54 countries. Maybe it happens in some of them—we all hear about it and we know that it exists. But I cannot say that it is the case in all countries in Africa. Hence the importance of our choosing the countries where we are going to start our trading relations, so that we can have, and build on, a positive experience.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

So you are still classifying some countries in Africa as better business destinations than others. Is that correct?

[Souad Elmallem]

Yes, because there is an international classification of economies around the world. You can see what is working and what is not working in every country. It's accessible to all, and it's not just for Africa, but for every continent and every country in the world.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much. You have 18 seconds.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot—Acton, QC]

In 18 seconds, can you tell us whether you use any classification other than the World Bank's?

[Souad Elmallem]

No. Basically, that's the one I use.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Mantle, please, you have five minutes.

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing and providing valuable testimony for our study.

The government's Africa trade policy document released last year estimates that Canada's merchandise trade with all African countries was about $15 billion, which, of course, is a rounding error when it comes to Canada's overall merchandise trade with the world and with the United States, our largest trading partner.

What, in your view, would be a base case and then an upper limit of where that number could go in the next five years? I'm looking to understand the scope of the benefit Canada could receive by expending resources or effort in expanding trade with Africa.

I'll ask each of the witnesses to respond, starting with Mr. Fadili.

[Hamid Fadili]

I really do not have figures to forecast the potential volume of trade between Canada and Africa in general, or for North Africa and West Africa specifically. I believe that [Technical difficulty—Editor] the potential we could be looking for if we strengthen our position in those markets.

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

Go ahead, Ms. Elmallem.

I'm sorry. The translation was a little bit slow on that, Madam Chair.

[Souad Elmallem]

I feel that it's quite a story. If I understood correctly, your question was about what we are going to invest in relation to the return on that investment we are going to get. It matters little whether the project is in Africa or in Europe because a project is a project. I see no difference between them.

As a businesswoman, when I am managing a project, I personally see no difference between the return on investment and the location of the project. Quite the contrary. If one location gives us more opportunity, so much the better. However, it's not a compromise. I do not see all of Africa as a compromise at all, because none of the projects I have done on the continent was a compromise.

It will always depend on the will we have as a country to invest in that part of the world and to have relationships, not only in trade, with the continent.

[Ruth Vachon]

I will follow what Ms. Elmallem said.

We see it rather from the perspective of the investments. Given that the work has not quite started, that it isn't really visible, we talk in terms of a period of ten years. We ask ourselves what the seed we are going to sow will be able to provide.

Right here, right now, I would not be able to suggest any figures to show what the returns will be because our key performance indicator focuses on the number of projects we can bring to, and grow in, Africa. For now, we do not focus on the return.

[Jacob Mantle, Conservative, York—Durham, ON]

As I understand it, all African countries except one have joined China's belt and road initiative for infrastructure and other projects across the continent. If Canadian businesses are going to expand and invest into the continent, should Canada establish guardrails for interactions with Chinese state-owned entities or other entities that are funded through the belt and road initiative? Does that present a risk for Canadian companies?

Mr. Fadili, may I start with you again?

[Hamid Fadili]

As was mentioned previously, there is always risk. Canada has a lot of work that it should do in prioritizing sectors and projects, according, for example, to the current global context, according to the opportunities offered, according to the potential of the sector and according to the strategic vision for the years to come.

It's true that there is competition. China is out there. Russia is out there. But Africans' view of Canada is positive; we have a good reputation. I feel that we are welcomed with open arms and that will continue to be the case. We just have to start the initiative on our end and everything will fall into place.

Ms. Elmallem, do you want to add something?

[Souad Elmallem]

Yes.

I want to say that, as soon as I saw Mr. Carney leave to do business in China, I saw it as a new opportunity to do business with China in Africa. I see no risk to that. On the contrary, we should work with China on the continent of Africa just as we want to work with China elsewhere.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much.

Next is Mr. Naqvi, please, for five minutes.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I want to thank the excellent witnesses who are here and are giving us some really good advice

Let me start with this question. I think all of us know that Africa is a very big continent with a large population base. It's a very diverse continent, as well, in terms of its makeup. Can I get advice from perhaps all three panel members as to where Canada should focus on doing more trade with Africa?

In terms of regions or countries, where do you see that we can be far more effective in growing our economy here in Canada and also helping the African economy?

Perhaps we can start with Madame Elmallem, and then go to Mr. Fadili and Madame Vachon.

[Souad Elmallem]

Thank you, Mr. Naqvi. That's a very interesting question.

When I think about the continent and when I talk about my concept note on the South Atlantic, which includes North Africa and West Africa, a part of the world with arable land and huge potential, when I consider food autonomy and food sovereignty, I see Canada conducting agri-food projects that will not only benefit the continent but will also ensure a kind of food sovereignty in Canada. Canada could then get everything it currently imports from the United States or from other places and could produce what it does not have during the winter months. That's a form of agricultural autonomy.

I see it as an extraordinary win‑win that is within Canada's grasp tomorrow morning.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Fadili, go ahead.

[Hamid Fadili]

As for specific actions Canada could start in order to take advantage of the potential, one, as has been mentioned, is to prioritize a half-dozen countries in the region. They would be stable countries, with strong economic development potential and with more links to Canada than others.

It also reinforces our diplomatic position in establishing some trust with investors and with civil society.

The issue of financing also came up. For example, it may be worthwhile to explore the possibility of Export Development Canada, among others, establishing funds specifically for Canadian investors who would like to explore all the business possibilities in the region.

In terms of logistics, we spoke earlier of the benefits of establishing transatlantic links between the ports of Montreal and Halifax and ports in Africa, like Dakhla, Tangiers and Dakar, and of seeing whether agreements on logistics are possible.

Protecting investors is always an issue as well. Protecting the investors who would like to explore those markets is a policy issue.

These are general examples of the things that could be set in motion in the coming months. It all starts with establishing a bilateral level of trust between Canada and each country, according to their own distinct reality.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Madame Vachon, go ahead.

[Ruth Vachon]

We do not intend to target many countries.

Ms. Elmallem spoke about the agri-food sector. Though we operate across multiple sectors, I would say that agri-food is the sector with the greatest potential for us.

The francophonie is also very important, but I would add that, for us, it is important to rely on the research carried out by our government. We can provide feedback, but our government, through its own research, knows where it is important to invest. Of course, at the outset, we go forward trusting the government's assessment of which sectors are less vulnerable for us.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you to our witnesses for very valuable testimony for our study.

I will suspend for a moment while our other panel comes up.

Thank you again to our witnesses.