Evidence of meeting #44 for International Trade in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was list.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Would it be fair to say that there's quite a bit of information sharing that's going on between our authorities and the Americans, as well as Europeans?
Director General, Sanctions and Strategic Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I believe so. I can't speak to it personally. Those areas of forced labour co-operation tend to happen at the ESDC level, but it's their response at the International Labour Organization and elsewhere.
Certainly we already deal very extensively with other countries. Part of the point, I believe, of having the bill under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is that this will facilitate the kinds of exchanges that ESDC is presently doing at the foreign affairs level as well.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
I understand that, for Bill C-35, there are going to be comprehensive consultations this summer, where stakeholders and interested parties can come forward to make sure that Bill C-35 is strengthened. Am I correct in that?
Director General, Sanctions and Strategic Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Minister Anand has indicated that she'll be going forth with consultations this summer. We're in the process of identifying how those can best be structured in such a way to complement the many consultations that have happened already.
Conservative
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Obviously, we're pleased with the recent developments. For a number of years now, the Bloc Québécois has been calling for stronger measures than the current ones. That said, we have questions about the effectiveness of the measures currently proposed in the bill.
In the text of the bill that it just introduced, the government specifically determines the products that would be banned from entry. Yet we don't know what those products will be.
You also just said that you can't specify the products in question for confidentiality reasons.
Did I understand that correctly?
Director General, Sanctions and Strategic Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
If I said that, I was wrong. I apologize.
The list won't take effect until the bill is passed. The regulations, including the list, will then come into force. We can't say what will be included on the list until the bill is passed.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
We had been asking for this for years, but the government wasn't doing anything. Now, Mr. Trump just made an announcement. As if by magic, the bill quickly materializes.
To the best of your knowledge, has the government been working on this bill for a long time?
Were you consulted in the past regarding the drafting of this bill?
Director General, Sanctions and Strategic Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
During the implementation of the Fighting Against Forced Labour and Child Labour in Supply Chains Act, when it comes to the customs tariff, multiple consultations took place. Efforts were made in this area, including with regard to other legislation. The work on this issue has been ongoing since 2020.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Better late than never.
Can you explain the difference between the current bill and the current legislation in place?
I would like you to summarize it for us. Since we don't have much time, I would like you to send the committee a document outlining the differences between the current system and what the bill proposes.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, International Trade and Chief Trade Commissioner, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Thank you for the question.
Bill C‑251 proposed certain—
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Could you submit additional details to the committee regarding the comparison between the current system and the bill?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, International Trade and Chief Trade Commissioner, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes. We can provide that for you.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, International Trade and Chief Trade Commissioner, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Bill C‑251 proposed some similar changes, particularly concerning the creation of a list and the rebuttable presumption. However, it continued to use customs tariffs as a legislative tool, which posed certain challenges for our colleagues in terms of border regulations.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
My Conservative colleague asked three questions earlier about specific products, including Giant bicycles and copper. You didn't have the answers to those questions.
Could you send the committee a written response? For example, we would like to know whether these products have been investigated.
You spoke about your review and the fact that you're carrying out a number of investigations. Personally, I thought that the number of intercepted or banned products wasn't that high.
Can you submit to the committee the list of the investigations carried out, along with the types of products approved or rejected?
Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Thank you for the question.
Regarding our activities, I have a list here that outlines the main points. However, if you would like specific figures, we'll send them to the committee later.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
We appreciate it.
You seemed to be saying earlier that the proposed bill is comparable to the approach taken by world leaders, such as the United States.
Why doesn't the government simply propose the system used in the United States?
Instead of responding to a request from President Trump practically overnight in order to satisfy him, why don't we just copy the approach taken in the United States?
Can you explain the difference between the proposal and the United States' approach?
Since I don't have much time left, I would like you to send us a written response as well. That would be helpful.
Director General, Sanctions and Strategic Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I think that the committee will have the opportunity to study the bill more closely.
For now, I can say two things.
First, the United States' legal system is quite different from ours. As a result, we can't use the exact same system.
Second, I would emphasize the fact that the American legislation applies only to certain regions. I would argue that this legislation provides the advantage of greater flexibility. We can add or remove regions and products with greater flexibility than the American system affords.
As I said earlier, I can't compare this legislation with the United States' legislation, because they're different.
That said, both are quite good. I can say that, if we compare our legislation to the approach taken in other parts of the world, we can see that our legislation is one of the best.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
You said earlier—or you were made to say—that Canada's proposal is better than the United States' system in place.
Director General, Sanctions and Strategic Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I don't want to compare Canada with the United States. However, I would say that Canada's proposal is stronger than the measures found in most countries around the world, as far as I know.
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
Okay.
Could you provide the committee with a comparison between the United States' approach and Canada's approach?
You said that this will be studied later, but it may not be studied by this committee. We would like to have this information.
Director General, Sanctions and Strategic Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
We could give you a response. It won't be a legal analysis, but it will at least be an answer to policy questions—
Bloc
Patrick Bonin Bloc Repentigny, QC
You have many resources. We are, after all, talking about a bill. We would like to have as much legal information as possible.
You also seem to be saying that Canada couldn't adopt the same approach as the United States for some reason. Could you elaborate on this and also provide supporting documents explaining why Canada couldn't use the same approach as the United States?
