Evidence of meeting #44 for International Trade in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was list.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Wilshaw  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, International Trade and Chief Trade Commissioner, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Hamilton  Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
McDonald  Director General, North America Trade Policy Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Brookfield  Director General, Sanctions and Strategic Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Toxopeus  Director General, Commercial Program Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Adam Chambers

I call this meeting to order.

This is meeting number 44 of the Standing Committee on International Trade.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by committee on Tuesday, June 9, the committee is commencing its study on enforcing Canada's import ban on goods using forced labour.

We appreciate our witnesses making themselves available on short notice, and thank you to the parliamentary secretary for helping arrange this meeting on short notice.

We have with us today, from the Canada Border Services Agency, Mr. Hamilton and Ms. Toxopeus. From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have Ms. Wilshaw, Mr. Brookfield and Ms. McDonald.

Thank you very much for attending.

I understand that there will be one opening statement from Ms. Wilshaw. You'll have five minutes.

For the committee's reference, I have 12 motions on notice, so I've secured additional resources, but we'll see if we can get out of here quickly.

Thank you very much.

Ms. Wilshaw, you have the floor.

Sara Wilshaw Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, International Trade and Chief Trade Commissioner, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to the committee.

The Government of Canada recognizes and appreciates the committee members' interest in eliminating forced labour in Canadian supply chains.

Forced labour constitutes a serious violation of fundamental human rights. This violation disproportionately affects the world's most vulnerable people by exploiting their lack of protection and limited economic opportunities.

Forced labour also distorts global markets and creates unfair competition for businesses that operate responsibly. Companies that invest in ethical sourcing should not be placed at a disadvantage by competitors who benefit directly or indirectly from exploitative labour practices.

For these reasons, the Government of Canada is committed to eliminating forced labour from Canadian supply chains. This is both a moral imperative and a key factor in ensuring a level playing field for Canadian companies. It also helps strengthen the resilience and security of supply chains, which serves the economic and security interests of Canada and our allies.

Canada has already taken significant steps to address forced labour through two separate but complementary mechanisms: an import prohibition on goods produced with forced labour introduced in 2020 and the supply chains act, which came into force in 2024 and requires certain entities and government institutions to publicly report on measures taken to prevent and reduce risks in their supply chains. Notably, Canada is the only country in the world to have both an import prohibition and federal supply chain transparency legislation to combat forced labour.

On June 12, the Government of Canada introduced a bill to strengthen Canada's current import ban by improving our ability to identify, intercept and prohibit goods produced in whole or in part using forced labour.

The proposed legislation complements Canada's broader approach to responsible business conduct, which includes international partnerships that advance human rights protections and co-operation with like-minded countries to address forced labour globally. It also ensures that Canada is meeting its international commitments, including obligations under the International Labour Organization conventions, UN instruments and agreements with our trading partners. We recognize that this is a complex global challenge that requires collaboration across governments, industry and civil society.

The introduction of this legislation marks a significant step forward in our ongoing efforts to address forced labour and underscores Canada's leadership in promoting human rights, strengthening the integrity of supply chains and supporting fair and open trade.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would be happy to answer the committee members' questions.

I would like to point out that my colleagues from the Canada Border Services Agency are also here. I want to thank them for being here. They will be happy to answer any questions about our activities and law enforcement.

Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Adam Chambers

Thank you very much.

For the first round, we have Mr. Mantle.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing. We appreciate your valuable testimony.

I want to start with some questions on enforcement.

An import ban sounds good, but if goods come in, it's not really much of a ban, is it? Last year, the U.S. blocked shipments of sea salt products from Taepyung Salt Farm because of concerns they were produced by forced labour. Those goods appear to be available in Canada. Has the CBSA investigated whether those goods are produced by forced labour?

Graeme Hamilton Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency

Thank you very much for the question.

On the detailed level of investigation question, I don't have that information in front of me, in terms of the actual investigations ongoing. My responsibilities within CBSA are outside of that particular area. I'm happy to take back those questions on notice, if you want, but I don't have that information available with me right now.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON

Okay, let's try another one.

Last year, the U.S. blocked shipments of bicycles and bicycle parts made by Giant Manufacturing Co., the world's largest bicycle manufacturer. There are two stores that sell Giant bicycles here in Ottawa and several in the Toronto region.

Has the CBSA investigated whether those bicycles available for purchase today in Canada were made by forced labour?

11:05 a.m.

Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency

Graeme Hamilton

Mr. Chair, again, my apologies to the committee member asking the questions. My role within CBSA is around the development of policy and authorities associated with a variety of different laws and regulations that the Government of Canada is trying to advance. I am not on the side of the CBSA house, so to speak, that works on either the investigations piece from a national targeting centre side or the implementation of the operations around the current export ban. I wouldn't be able to testify with any certainty in terms of details on any ongoing investigations or specifics related to goods that may or may not have been imported previously.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON

Okay, I'll try one more.

Two days ago, the U.S. blocked shipments of copper products made at a mine in Serbia by Serbia Zijin Copper because they determined they were being produced by forced labour. It appears from public reporting that those copper products have been exported to Canada.

Has the CBSA investigated whether those copper products entering Canada were made with forced labour?

11:05 a.m.

Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency

Graeme Hamilton

I would say, in terms of items that have been blocked from entering the U.S. system, there is a healthy collaboration that takes place between the U.S. CBP and Canada Border Services around sharing information, especially around re-exportation, which is a concern, so that it doesn't get redirected into Canada.

Again, I can't speak to the specifics of the case that's being identified, but I do know there are regular exchanges between ourselves and the CBP around such issues as re-exportation, where there are concerns with the goods that are trying to be imported into the U.S.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON

I have to say it's kind of concerning to me that we have five people here from what are supposed to be the responsible departments, yet no one can provide answers or any information on goods that for months have been publicly known to have caused concerns about forced labour. I find that unacceptable.

I don't think the CBP in the U.S. shares your view. CBP says:

Canada has not taken action to restrict the importation of goods for which there is a known risk of forced labor. For example, Canada has taken only minimal action to investigate the importation of goods that are subject to CBP's WROs [withhold release orders] or Findings, or to comprehensively address forced labor goods produced in regions of concern.

Is that true?

11:05 a.m.

Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency

Graeme Hamilton

I believe the quote is coming from the USTR 301 investigation report.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON

It is, yes.

11:05 a.m.

Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency

Graeme Hamilton

I would say, from my role in CBSA and my understanding of the co-operation that takes place between our two organizations, we have embeds within national targeting centres in the U.S. that are run by the CBP. They also have embeds in ours. There's a healthy exchange of information that does take place. Operationally, how that plays out in terms of different imports, I wouldn't want to speak to the specifics.

Those are the words of the U.S. I wouldn't want to testify to them specifically. I would maybe defer to Global Affairs if they have overall comments on the USTR report and its findings.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON

Another concerning aspect of that report is that they say:

The Canada Border Services Agency, the agency responsible for enforcing Canada’s forced labor import prohibition, does not appear to publish official statistics or other information regarding its enforcement efforts.

Is that true?

11:05 a.m.

Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency

Graeme Hamilton

With respect to forced labour import bans, that is true. We have not published statistics in terms of how many goods have been intercepted and whether they're successful, abandoned or re-exported.

The CBSA does take an open and transparent approach to publishing a lot of its enforcement statistics. It publishes an annual report, for example. There are often online statistics related to drugs, guns and inadmissibility concerns published on a regular basis on CBSA's website.

Given the limited number of cases that we have on the forced labour side, we have not moved forward with public reporting on those goods. However, there would be nothing that would prohibit the publication of generic material around the success of the import ban and the success of enforcement actions, so long as it does not lead to inadvertent disclosure of specific companies, because there are elements of privacy and there are concerns related to section 107 of the Customs Act around disclosure of some of that information.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON

If the U.S. can publish the names of companies, the regions of concern and the goods at issue, why can't the CBSA do the same?

11:10 a.m.

Director General, Traveller, Commercial and Trade Policy Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency

Graeme Hamilton

I would just defer the question to the broader Government of Canada posture on this. CBSA is an enforcement agency. We are not experts on forced labour. We do have MOUs in place with ESDC, which provides general reporting on conditions of concern where products are made, and that is what we use to inform our targeting, but we ourselves are not publishing a list of goods.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON

Thank you.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Adam Chambers

Go ahead, Mr. Ehsassi.

Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Mantle cited a USTR report. He's trying to paint a picture that Canada is a laggard. As I understand it, that USTR report explicitly looked at practices in over 60 countries. Am I correct in that assumption?

Lynn McDonald Director General, North America Trade Policy Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Yes, you are correct. The USTR report looked into 60 economies, as they called them, given that they included the countries of the European Union.

Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON

Absolutely. That's my understanding as well. Thank you for clarifying that.

I note, as was suggested in the opening remarks, that we have two pieces of legislation. Now we're proceeding with Bill C-35 to ensure that we're at the forefront of this.

This is obviously a very challenging issue for countries around the world to deal with. It's complex, but of course there's the moral imperative as well.

Who could tell us more about Bill C-35? Some of the provisions I've seen in it seem to suggest that our system could very well become more robust than the American system, especially given the reality that the onus is going to be put on companies as opposed to the onus being put on our officials.

Mr. Brookfield, I'm sure you know this new piece of legislation inside out. If you could tell us the key features of Bill C-35, I'd be grateful.

Robert Brookfield Director General, Sanctions and Strategic Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Certainly. As you may be aware, Canada is one of the first countries in the world to do a forced labour prohibition. We did that initially through the customs tariff.

One of the challenges with that process, which my colleagues in CBSA can elaborate on, is that it did not allow for transparency for companies or the details for allowing a system to be in place for advance notice and analysis. One of the key elements of Bill C-35 is the ability to establish a list that would deal with goods and with regions and/or companies providing it. It would be a signal to companies importing that in those cases they need to have a very good demonstration, through regulations that would be established, that they are meeting the requirements, or the item would be banned at the border.

Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON

Would it be fair to say, in the event that Bill C-35 is adopted, that we would be at the forefront and that this would create a more robust system than exists even in the U.S. and in Europe?

11:10 a.m.

Director General, Sanctions and Strategic Export Controls, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Robert Brookfield

Europe is in the process of implementing this legislation. It has passed some bills, but I believe its law doesn't come into force until the end of 2027. Experts from ESDC are able to speak in more detail to that.

I won't try to compare with the U.S. specifically. You no doubt could have witnesses, when the bill is examined, to deal with the advantages and disadvantages, but I would say it's very comparable to the U.S. measure and that virtually no other countries in the world, including the EU, have anything that's equivalent to it.