Justice Committee on Oct. 18th, 2006

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I have a point of order. Is it the intention to distribute this truckload of paper to all of us?

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

Just the executive summary.

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

How big is it?

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

They're usually short.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

How long would the summary be? Two or three pages?

[Derek Lee, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

That's fine, thank you.

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

Yes, short.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Mr. Comartin.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Are the reports online somewhere?

[Barbara Merriam]

I don't think so. They're not online at Public Security and Emergency Preparedness Canada, because the funding was under the National Crime Prevention Strategy. But they are available electronically.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Perhaps you could tell us where we can go for more detail.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Art Hanger]

Thank you, Mr. Comartin.

Monsieur Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Good afternoon.

I was a legal aid lawyer in Quebec for 30 years, and today, one of my dreams is coming true: to meet the people who fund it. It's nice to meet you, although I'm not sure the opposite is true. In any case, we'll try to take it easy.

Why is there no drug treatment court in Quebec, in Montreal, for example?

It's probably because there are no drugs in Montreal! So, Mr. Petit, everything you have been saying for some time is apparently false.

Let's be serious. Ms. Merriam, can you answer that question?

[Barbara Merriam]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to answer in English.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

No problem.

[Barbara Merriam]

There was a call for proposals that was disseminated widely across the country through our contacts in the criminal justice system and through the Health Canada contacts in the health systems, and we asked for proposals from communities across Canada. Then a review committee was established with officials from Health Canada and the Department of Justice and outside experts to evaluate the proposals, and that's how we came up with the four new courts.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

All right. Since I'm quite familiar with legal aid, my next questions are going to be on that.

Is there any legislation that requires the federal government to fund legal aid across Canada or is it left to the government's discretion?

[Donald Piragoff]

There's no legislation requiring the government to provide funding for that.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

So it's left up to the government's discretion?

[Donald Piragoff]

Yes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Would it be desirable for this committee to strongly recommend that the government establish in legislation the requirement to fund legal aid?

[Donald Piragoff]

It's really up to you, as committee members, to make whatever recommendations you want to the government. All I can indicate is that because this is an area of shared responsibility between the federal government, under its authority under criminal law and section 91 of the Constitution Act, and the provinces under administration of justice, under section 92, I think the provinces are very happy to negotiate as two sovereign domains under the Constitution. But if we were to start legislating things that actually affect the administration of justice, they may not appreciate it. On the other hand, they always appreciate money. I can't speak for the provinces, but it's your recommendation.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I wasn't talking about legislation containing all of the details of the negotiations, I was thinking of general legislation stipulating that the government of Canada is committed to funding legal aid and to negotiating. We know that it's an area of shared jurisdiction. At least there would be legislation, and I'm going to tell you what the purpose of that will be. Transfers of funds for legal aid—and I'm talking about Quebec here—are negotiated. So far, I believe I'm not mistaken.

What happens if the negotiations fail? The money isn't transferred. What happens if the settlement of a file is held up by the negotiations, as was the case in 2006-2007?

[Donald Piragoff]

That's a problem affecting all negotiations. The powers are divided between the federal government and the provinces.

Parliament is free to impose obligations on the federal government to spend money. Clearly, the spending of money by the federal government in this area is under the finance power.

With respect to negotiations, each province is not necessarily treated the same with respect to funding, because the funding does take into account differences within the provinces--populations, legal aid costs, criminal justice statistics, etc. The funding formulas have changed from time to time, so if there were a legal obligation, there would still have to be some type of mechanism under the law for negotiations by the provinces and the federal government in order to provide a certain amount of flexibility. It would be possible to have a legal obligation, but there would still have to be some kind of flexibility to permit the negotiation that exists at present.