Evidence of meeting #22 for Justice and Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Sue Barnes Liberal London West, ON
I have two questions.
Has anybody ever done the impact studies on when people don't get legal aid and they end up going unrepresented before the courts? When I was doing that stuff, that usually wasted more time than anything else, when you had people who didn't know what they were doing. Even duty counsel were overwhelmed with this.
The second question is with respect to “three strikes, you're out”. I think there'd be a chill effect if you had it even on the first offence. I've already had both prosecutors and lawyers talk to me about that, that whenever things stack up, you're going to have the impact of not wanting to do a guilty plea, not only in the third but in every single offence that's in any sort of listing situation. So instead of going to a guilty plea, there will now be trials, which is going to have an impact, obviously, on court time. It's also going to have an impact on the legal aid costs.
In preparation for our bill and for your supplementary estimates--which already have been finalized, I know--have you done any studies with respect to the impact? Did anybody ever give consideration to perhaps unintended consequences?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Justice
On the first question, unrepresented accused, I don't know if there are specific studies, but there has been, as indicated, an increase in unrepresented accused. It is increasing trial length, because judges are saying they have to spend more time explaining things to the unrepresented accused. That would not necessarily happen if there were counsel. Clearly, unrepresented accused are slowing down the justice system, because the judge has to ensure the person gets a fair trial.
The alternative is that some cases may be so complex, as Mr. Moore has indicated, that the courts have to order the Attorney General to fund the provision of legal counsel; it's not possible for the judge to assist the unrepresented accused. That is a topic the justice steering committee is looking at. That's the committee composed of the judiciary, especially the bench and bar, and the government is looking at that issue.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Justice
The second question on three strikes?
Liberal
Sue Barnes Liberal London West, ON
The chill effect, and whether you did any planning from a legal aid perspective on what will happen under the court system of justice at the third.... It's legal aid.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Justice
The legal aid course. That is being discussed with the provinces to determine the cost that might be associated with this particular reform.
Liberal
October 18th, 2006 / 5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
I have the documents that we said we'd have for the committee on Monday on some of the cost analysis on Bill C-9. Shall I give that to the clerk?
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Art Hanger
Order, please.
The documents are now presented to the committee, as requested at a previous meeting, if the clerk would distribute them.
I would like to thank the witnesses again for appearing before the justice committee. I think this has been informative. I've learned a bit about our drug treatment course as well as legal aid. We will continue our review for one more session in reference to both these issues.
Thank you, again.
This meeting is adjourned.
