In relation to that, this is not a debate between pro-crime people and anti-crime people. What we're talking about here is finding the most effective way to reduce crime. I think that in terms of criminal justice there's far more we can do to prevent future crimes than we can do to end past crimes. We're past that.
What we're talking about here is a bill that you've presented. It's not a victims bill; it's a punishment bill, no doubt with the intention that it would reduce future victimization. Our point is that when you look at the cost associated with it, and the minimal effect, there are far more important ways in which we could be addressing circumstances in the community to reduce future victimization. In that sense, I think that's all we're talking about--victimization--but this is a punishment bill, and the assumption that punishment is directly related to criminal activity is what I'm challenging.