Evidence of meeting #16 for Justice and Human Rights in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was courts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister, for being here.
Further to Mr. Comartin's question, you were saying increasing the pool from 30 to 50. Can you describe a bit what we're talking about when we say “the pool”?
4 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Yes, and because Ms. McKinnon wanted to have a comment concerning Mr. Comartin's intervention, I'm going to ask her to answer first.
4 p.m.
Counsel, Judicial Affairs, Courts and Tribunal Policy, Department of Justice
Thank you.
I just wanted to make a correction. The pool was originally created in the 1970s, but it was last revised in 1992. At that time, there had been 10 salaries authorized for the county courts, and that was moved into the general provision for the superior trial courts.
But when we speak about the pool generally, as the minister has described, we have what is a general authorization for appointments to the provincial superior trial courts. They can be allocated to any jurisdiction in Canada. You will see in the Judges Act that there are provisions, sections 12 through 22 of the act, that specify the various courts of the individual jurisdictions and the number of appointments authorized for each court. This pool offers an additional authorization for appointments to any of those jurisdictions.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
In answer to your question, Mr. Moore, it offers some flexibility. Rather than having to amend each individual provincial or territorial provision with respect to the appointment of superior court judges, if we had what is known as a pool we could take individuals and allocate them, as needed, across the country.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
Being from New Brunswick, I'm familiar with some of the issues around New Brunswick's case.
Minister, can you tell us a bit about what you were hearing from the provinces—from New Brunswick, from Nova Scotia—on the need you're addressing with this bill, and maybe relate some of the general concerns they've expressed and how providing these additional positions is obviously a major step in the right direction?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
You specifically mentioned New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. There has been a fairly dramatic increase in the number of applications for child protection that have now been before the courts. I think in New Brunswick alone, since 1997, there's been a 65% increase in the number of child protection applications. Needless to say, these applications put more strain on the system, there's no question about that.
As I say, on each of the occasions that I have met with provincial attorneys general, depending on the situation in the province, they have made the point to me that they would like to see either one or more additional judges appointed, depending on the jurisdiction. Ontario has asked for more than one, not surprisingly.
Much of the cost of this is borne by the provinces, as you know, so they're not making idle requests that are entirely at the expense of the federal government. We bear considerable expense, obviously, in paying the salary of these individuals; nonetheless, they've made the case and they've been very clear with me about the need.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB
Thanks.
Mr. Petit is going to take my additional time, Mr. Chair.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon, Mr. Minister.
There is something new: this pool of 20 judges that we are adding. I know that you have tabled several bills that have recently been passed, for example Bill C-2 that has just been passed by the Senate. We know that this could create a volume which, in truth, would be justified given the new legislation that we have passed. The fact remains that aside from this volume, there is the specific issue of what we call the claims tribunals.
Could you tell me, as we are looking towards an increase in the number of judges, what the participation of the Assembly of First Nations would be? This is important. In Quebec, the first nations represent approximately 88,000 people. In the other provinces, it is much more. The fact that a third party may participate really is rather new. I would like to know how you see any assistance that the first nations may be able to offer as far as future appointments are concerned.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Obviously, Monsieur Petit, they certainly add to the credibility of any process that affects their rights. The discussions are primarily led by my colleague, the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, Mr. Chuck Strahl, and before him, Mr. Jim Prentice. They are fully aware of the process we are undertaking. It has received widespread support.
I indicated to you, as I was concluding my remarks about the truth and reconciliation commission, which obviously has huge implications for aboriginal Canadians, that they're supportive, I can tell you, of the individual we have in mind to take over that.
Again, I'm not the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, but the process obviously has to have the support of the stakeholders in this, and I'm very pleased by the work that's been done by my colleagues on this to advance this file. I think everyone in this country would agree that the present situation of having a rising number of claims that take a long period of time and bring no finality, no justice, to the individuals involved doesn't serve anyone's interest.
So it does have widespread support to have these new judges for the tribunal and to have an individual who can preside over the trust and reconciliation commission. Again, these things are done in consultation with aboriginal Canadians, and that is as it should be.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT
Thank you.
I'll continue on that same question that Mr. Lemay asked—and this has been feedback from aboriginal people on that particular bill. Once again, could you make it clear to me, in regard to the judges who are going to be picked for the specific claims, what is going to be different in their selection from other judges, to make sure that aboriginal people are confident?
You made a great statement that the person for the truth and reconciliation commission is well respected by aboriginal people and non-aboriginal people, but how is your selection process for the specific claims judges going to make sure they're respected by aboriginal people?
I know that if we were to say to the Assembly of First Nations, for instance, “Pick the person who's going to arbitrate over the specific claims between the two bodies, the government and the first nation government”, we wouldn't agree with that. So I'm sure they just want input. What's different in picking the specific claims judges from normal judges that will give confidence to the first nations peoples over whose disputes they will be party to?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
Certainly anybody can make representations, Mr. Bagnell. You can make representations to me, quite frankly, and I will pass those on to the chief justice in the territory or the province. These are existing superior court judges, so I think they certainly have that credibility going for them.
My expectation, and our expectation in consultations with chief justices across this country, is that they want people who are experienced who will bring that credibility. If there's any input you want to forward, certainly to me, we would certainly be pleased to pass that on, because we want it to work. But again, you're going to be getting highly qualified people. This is a new regime that has widespread support, and in my opinion, it will be a huge success.
Again, I'm not the lead minister on putting this together, so I want to be clear about that. Nonetheless, if there are any questions or comments that you or any other member have with respect to this, we would certainly be pleased to pass those on.
March 4th, 2008 / 4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
It's a very brief question. I have two minutes.
Thank you, Mr. Minister, for coming.
I'm just trying to get, if I understand it right, at the issue of vacancies. I had figures that as of January 24, 2008, there were 31 vacancies. I know in the run-up to a possible election on your side, you filled a lot of judicial vacancies. I know it was just a coincidence. But it says in the briefing document that the room has been used up. Is the document saying there are no judicial vacancies?
Secondly, if there are 14 new ones to be made across Canada, when do you think you'll be making those once this becomes law?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
We have vacancies on a regular basis.
Again, I want to thank you for your comments, Mr. Murphy, with respect to the bona fides of the judges we have nominated. We take into consideration a number of things. One of your colleagues was talking about our sensitivity to people who speak both official languages, or to have individuals who can respond to the needs of a particular community across this country.
Since taking office, we've appointed 146 judges to this point in time. I expect vacancies will continue on a regular basis. With the amendments to the Judges Act--you will remember just before Christmas we had a considerable increase in the number of judges who either went supernumerary or retired, so that put added pressure. We have been very consistent in terms of not trying to meet any particular quota or timetable. We want to make sure we get the right people and we get qualified individuals who will do honour to their sovereign and their country in taking on this huge responsibility. It's a role we take very seriously.
Again, the 20 I'm talking about are over and above any existing positions or any vacancies. If there are two vacancies, for instance, in the province of New Brunswick, we tend to fill those vacancies as expeditiously as possible. Then, once this bill is passed, we will be in discussion with chief justices across this country in terms of the allocation from the pool.
I hope that answers your question.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
It's a fine response.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
