Justice Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2009

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

In the public prosecutions entirely?

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

No, these are for youth programs through the justice department. I don't think any of these include money from public safety. I think it's just your department.

Those are the four questions.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you very much.

With respect to the quadrennial commissions, my office is meeting with judges on the procedure and other possible improvements to the quadrennial commission judges, just so you know.

I think I indicated in my comments to Monsieur Ménard that the quadrennial commission is definitely an improvement over the way it was done 20 years ago in this country. But as I say, I leave the door open to improvements in that, and we're having discussions with them.

With respect to the $3.3 million for the public prosecutions, the item is called a profiling. This is a process where funds approved for a department for a specific purpose during a fiscal year are reallocated to be used for the same purpose by the department in the following year, and this is with respect to accommodations, information management, and information technology. So it was money not used in one fiscal year moved over to another. That's what I have been told.

With respect to your question on legal aid, as you know, the base for legal aid is now permanent. We made that permanent with respect to criminal legal aid.

There are great responsibilities with respect to refugee determination, the Immigration Review Board, and we provide for that. Again, we'll have to see, of course, in the next budget, Monsieur Ménard, as to what, if any change--

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I'm Mr. Comartin. Mr. Ménard is down there.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I beg your pardon. I was thinking about that--

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Ménard was going to be insulted if I didn't correct that, Mr. Minister.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

With respect to youth programs, I will undertake to give you a breakdown of exactly where we're at on that. I will ask if the deputy minister can give you any further....

[John Sims, Deputy Minister, Deputy Minister and Deputy Attorney General's Office, Department of Justice]

Mr. Comartin, you spoke to me just before the meeting began, and I'll look into updating the information that we provided after the last time we appeared. I'll have to verify this, but from memory, I think some of the spending that was lagging behind--there was money allocated that hadn't been spent--was largely for crime prevention money, which was Public Safety money, not the Department of Justice money. But I'll verify that for you and we'll write to the chairman with the updated information.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I want to follow that up, Mr. Sims.

I have a list of all of the projects that were funded. If there have been additional ones funded since you gave me this list at the end of May--I think I got it in June--could you give me the additional projects that have been funded? I'm just looking for the youth ones.

[John Sims]

I'd be pleased to.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Going back to legal aid, Mr. Minister, can you tell me if--and I can't remember the name of the case, but it's a case that describes the judge making an order that compels the province to fund outside of legal aid defences for criminal charges--you are aware if there's been any substantial increase in those orders, particularly in Ontario?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I can't say that. I do know there has been a new initiative by the Province of Ontario, and I believe.... And I should be careful when I'm trying to speak on behalf of the Ontario government, but I believe they've committed an additional $50 million to legal aid in the province. My understanding is that of course it's been well received. As to the number of cases where there have been judicial orders with respect to that, I don't have any statistics on that.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Actually, the funds have been allocated over I think a three- or five-year period, but the boycott is continuing. Is the federal government ever faced with having to pay those expenses? I'm thinking in particular where there are federal offences, drug charges in particular, or are they always made against the provincial governments?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

That's a very interesting question, Mr. Comartin. I will look into that and let you know.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

If there are, I would like to get some sense of quantity.

Those are all the questions I have. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you. That was right on time.

We'll move on to Mr. Woodworth for seven minutes.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. I don't know if I'll need all my time. I want to be sure that any information provided to Mr. Comartin will go to the whole committee. I am particularly interested in the information that was requested regarding youth justice programs, because I think there will be a lot of good news in that.

Could I get that clarified first? Then I have some other comments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

It normally goes to the clerk first. Then it is circulated to committee members once it has been translated.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

That's great. I noticed in 2008-09 documents that were tabled in the spring that there was $1.84 million of funding, 22 projects on smart choices, another $549,000 for 11 projects on youth with illicit substance abuse issues, and another $800,000 in funding for 18 innovative youth justice projects. I am interested in that because I think the government is doing an excellent job. In particular, I'm very pleased with the national anti-drug strategy and the fact that it was coordinated to be consistent with the United Nations drug control policy.

Has a drug treatment court information system been initiated to better collect substance relapse data? In the spring that was not far enough along to determine anything. There was a pilot site and a recidivism study. Do we know when those things are likely to come to fruition so we have some data on how things are working?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you very much for your comments.

Of course we would be glad to provide you with any information we have on youth programming. You have the chairman's undertaking that it will be distributed.

I'm very pleased and proud of the national anti-drug strategy you talked about. It's a joint effort between the Department of Justice, Public Safety, and the health minister, because there's is a very important health component in educating people to stay away from drugs and give them the help they need. I can't help but notice that a number of ads that talk about children and their vocabulary, and all that, are running as we speak on the national news networks. So I think these are appropriate.

We have extended the life of drug treatment courts because we want to get more information on relapses. I was particularly interested in this project when I became justice minister, because I like the concept of giving people a second chance; giving people who aren't otherwise connected to organized crime or the violence that is many times associated with drugs, who have made a mistake and become addicted, the opportunity to turn their lives around.

We don't have the statistics I would like to see at this time, but I have no hesitation in recommending to my colleagues to extend those courts, because they are steps in the right direction in helping these individuals. The courts have been extended until the end of March 2012. I'm particularly pleased to have them and support them.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Thank you.

We'll move to one more round of three minutes apiece.

Monsieur D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Minister, I will make this short, I am from New Brunswick, which is an officially bilingual province. As you know, we voted for Bill C-232, the objective of which is to require Supreme Court of Canada justices to be bilingual.

Considering the position taken by parliamentarians in a free vote in the House of Commons, I would like to know what you have in mind. Do you see yourself agreeing to implement that bill?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

It hasn't been passed yet. We'd better not get ahead of ourselves, sir.

I made the point that being bilingual is an important factor, but the overriding consideration in appointments to the Supreme Court of Canada is merit based on legal excellence and personal suitability. So I don't think it's quite correct to say this is the law of Canada. As justice minister I know how difficult it is to get anything through, so I never get ahead of myself in saying something is the law.

I've made the point that legal excellence and suitability are the criteria, but being bilingual and having a facility in des langues officielles is very important. That of course has to be a consideration any time we're appointing people to the bench in this country.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Minister, you say that judges must be appointed on merit. Will you agree that an important part of the decision should be based on bilingualism in order to ensure that when a Canadian citizen appears before a judge, he or she will be fully understood without having to go through a translation system, even though the translators do their best? You will understand that in court, a person's emotional state varies depending on whether the person is speaking directly of there is a translation.