Evidence of meeting #11 for Justice and Human Rights in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here.
Mr. Froese, just to pursue the point about the registration of owners, there's a good and valid reason in the business community, at least for a period of time and maybe for long periods of time, for not wanting that information to get out, because of the risk of competition. If you're a major name or a major corporation going into an area and you want to acquire a lot of land in that area, in the initial corporate set-up you don't want your name to be shown. I'm thinking not so much of Canada as of other jurisdictions that have set up a system whereby the ownership has to be registered but it is kept private and in the hands of the department that takes the registration, and it can only be divulged as a result of a court order. Have you seen any jurisdictions that have done that?
11:55 a.m.
Senior Managing Director, Froese Forensic Partners Ltd.
I haven't seen that. I know it's a lot easier to access that information in some other countries, but I don't know if they have actual legislation for it. That's a good question.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
At the provincial level, are you aware of any provinces that are looking at requiring ownership to be registered?
11:55 a.m.
Senior Managing Director, Froese Forensic Partners Ltd.
I'm not aware of that, no.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Is it the same with the nominee companies? Is any province looking at requiring the ownership to be disclosed within a specified period of time?
11:55 a.m.
Senior Managing Director, Froese Forensic Partners Ltd.
Not that I'm aware of, no.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Okay.
Inspector Perron, with regard to the use of provincial legislation versus federal legislation, can you tell us, either in terms of the number of files or the percentage of dollars acquired by forfeiture, which one is being used more extensively in Ontario?
11:55 a.m.
Insp Don Perron
Regrettably, I don't have the accurate numbers, but I'm comfortable saying that the federally prosecuted matters are greater than the provincially prosecuted matters. That's specifically in Ontario with the marijuana grow houses that we're having difficulty with; we're seizing a lot of property as a result of the grow houses that we're dismantling.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Can I assume from that also that the results--that is, the quantity of dollars received--would be greater through the federal legislation than through the provincial?
11:55 a.m.
Insp Don Perron
I believe that would be a fair comment, yes.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Okay.
I think it was at the time when you were still going too fast that you gave us the figure of $155 million. What year was that for?
11:55 a.m.
Insp Don Perron
This would have been for the last five years, meaning 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, and 2005.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
11:55 a.m.
Insp Don Perron
That is combined. That was all the seizures and forfeitures from the three legislative processes--provincial, federal, and civil.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Then you gave us the figure of $24 million that went back to the crown. Was that in the same period of time?
11:55 a.m.
Insp Don Perron
Yes, that's correct.
11:55 a.m.
Insp Don Perron
You have to recognize that the $155 million is money that we froze and seized. A lot of that money will go back to innocent third-party interests--a lot of it. Some of it would go back to--
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
Could you give us an example? That's a lot of money that is going back to third parties. Are these people who have been victimized by organized crime?
Noon
Insp Don Perron
Not victimized...some of them were. Some of them participated in activity unknowingly. For example, take a grow house that's worth $500,000 and there's a $250,000 mortgage on the house. We've taken the position that we've taken $500,000 out of that criminal economy. Obviously, you have to reposition the money, and that's not going to be forfeited back to the innocent parties.
Noon
NDP
Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON
So the financial institution that has the mortgage is, in effect, waiting to get that money back?
Noon
Insp Don Perron
Yes. They can make application to the courts.
