Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Gentlemen, thanks for being here today and sharing your views with us.
Mr. Sapers, in your remarks you conclude by saying we need to strike a balance between measures that are designed to incapacitate and deter and measures that advance the principles of reintegration and rehabilitation.
My view of this bill, and the government's, is that this bill is not designed to incapacitate or deter. We're trying to reinforce the rights of victims and foster respect for them, their families, and their communities. We're trying to restore confidence in our criminal justice system. And we're trying to ensure that the sentences imposed by the courts are actually going to be served by first-degree murderers. That's what this bill is about.
We're not saying to anyone that this bill is going to incapacitate or deter. Obviously, it will incapacitate to the extent that first-degree murderers are going to spend a little more time in prison. They're not going to be able to commit another offence while they're in jail. But that's not the purpose.
I hope all Canadians understand the purpose of this bill: we're trying to design a system that respects the victims. You heard from the victims' ombudsman earlier about the great anxiety that victims' families go through when they anticipate having to go to a faint-hope clause hearing, and then to a parole board hearing. They may have to do this on multiple occasions, each time reliving the worst hours of their lives.
For every murderer, there is at least one victim. But for each of their victims, there are many family members and friends. There are whole communities. Some of these horrendous crimes that have happened recently traumatize entire communities. These communities are going to be traumatized again and again when these faint-hope applications are made.
Perhaps you could give that some thought.
You provided us with a list of countries that in your view have shorter incarceration periods than Canada. You mentioned New Zealand, Scotland, and Switzerland, and that's very interesting. But you didn't mention the United States, which, from my understanding of history, is the oldest democracy in modern times, our largest trading partner and closest neighbour. You didn't mention the average length of time first-degree murderers spend in jail in that country. I recognize that some states apply the death penalty, but many do not. Maybe you could inform us on that.
Also, I wonder if you could tell us about India. It's the world's largest democracy, with 1.3 billion people, and it's one of our fellow members of the Commonwealth. We have over one million Canadians of Indian heritage. I wonder if you could tell us what the stats are in India.
