Justice Committee on March 29th, 2010

[Chief Michael Boyd]

I can't tell you how many cases are on the go now, but I can tell you that we made our first case a little more than a year ago, probably, and we continue to investigate that crime. There's been an increasing movement of people from other parts of the country and from other parts of the world to Alberta. We've seen this as a bit of a shift, and it's something that we've seen more of recently than we did in the past.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Alright.

I wonder if you can talk to us about the sharing of information on criminal activity among various police forces and, if I am not mistaken, customs officials. Is that organized in any way?

[Mike Skappak]

One of our biggest struggles as an agency is transferring intelligence from a police force to an agency, and vice versa. We are integrated into some of the integrated units across the country--IBETs, CIID, CCIU, and CEIU--and we're trying to make strides toward that.

However, we do have a problem with section 107 of the Customs Act, which prevents us from sharing in a timely fashion from time to time. It can delay the transfer of information, and sometimes when you need it in real time, that is a problem. But we're hopeful that integrating members, intelligence officers, and analysts into these units will expedite that.

[Brian Gibson]

Within the province of Alberta, that's the foundation of the ALERT model: to provide us the opportunity to do intelligence sharing across the province. We're working directly toward that.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Perhaps you have already heard about the Carcajou squad in Quebec, which tackled the Hells Angels, and was very successful. The formula consisted of bringing together police officers from various police forces into a single squad. Thus, they were able to share criminal intelligence quickly, on a daily basis, and when combined with intelligence from other polices forces, it was often complementary.

Has this model been introduced here? If not, has it been considered?

[Insp Clemens Imgrund]

I have the red light, so that's great. I was wondering when I was going to get a chance.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Insp Clemens Imgrund]

Thank you.

In Alberta there's a great deal of exchange of intelligence, but we are challenged by technology. We are hoping the new API system that Mr. Gibson spoke to is going to help solve that problem. We utilize ACIIS, the national crime data bank, and various other processes to do that. We have daily interagency conference calls, which I chair, where we actually exchange intelligence on a live basis.

We also have a great number of integrated units within the province where the exchange of intelligence is inherent. The Calgary criminal intelligence unit and the Edmonton criminal intelligence unit are integrated units. Not only do we share intelligence on a regular basis, but we work together day to day. Therefore, the sharing of this intelligence is inherent to the daily processes.

We are very optimistic that once API3 is developed and the new platform to replace ACIIS is in place--and I don't recall its name--it's going to help facilitate that from a technological point of view. I would suggest that our biggest challenge at this time is to have a seamless technological process to facilitate the exchange. That's why, in the interim, we have something like these daily teleconferences for the exchange of intelligence.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Fast]

Mr. Comartin, you have seven minutes.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

I was in Toronto on Thursday. We got some indication of the corruption of officials. I was concerned about the way that was presented. I have the same concern, Inspector Imgrund and Chief Hanson, that you have today.

I'll ask the question that I posed to the police officials at that time. Are you aware of any cases where judicial figures--prosecutors, regular police officers, people within our corrections system--have been corrupted by organized crime?

[Chief Rick Hanson]

The answer to that is yes.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Were charges laid and convictions made?

[Chief Rick Hanson]

No. In answer to the question of if we are aware of where corruption and infiltration are occurring, not to the point where we've laid charges, but there are investigations under way.

Again, it's an issue of resources and the ability to focus an adequate amount of resources on those investigations. Nothing is more important than that, I want you to know, but I can categorically assure you that we're very much aware of the issue as it relates to Calgary, and we have investigations under way.

As you can understand, I obviously can't even comment on which branch of the justice system we're looking at, but I can tell you that we do have investigations under way.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I want to be clear that I'm talking about corruption in the form of bribery or active engagement as opposed to intimidation. Are you distinguishing that way as well?

[Chief Rick Hanson]

Yes. Intimidation is one thing I would gladly be able to give you more detail on, but corruption includes having influence on accessing either police information or information within the justice system, or influencing the actions of somebody within the justice system.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Do you expect charges to come out of these investigations or is it too soon to be able to answer?

[Chief Rick Hanson]

I expect that at some point down the road, yes.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Inspector, are there any investigations in your area?

[Insp Clemens Imgrund]

I'm aware of two current investigations that involve corruption. I suspect one of them is the same one that Chief Hanson was making reference to.

I also know of incidents of corruption at a lower level, where a detachment clerk, for example, was inappropriately manipulated for the purpose of gaining intelligence. But it is happening at a higher level as well; people who are in an official capacity are being utilized for the sake of facilitating criminal offences.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I'm trying to put this in a time context. Is this a relatively recent development? What this committee is trying to get a sense of is the penetration of organized crime in society generally, and in terms of these questions, specifically in the criminal justice system. Is this a fairly recent phenomenon or do you have reason to believe that it's been going on for some time?

[Chief Rick Hanson]

Again, I can only speak for Calgary, but unfortunately I think we've been incredibly naive over the years as it relates to Calgary. I think it has probably existed for longer than we believe. But now there's a firm understanding that it is a new part of the police landscape.

Again, it's something that is more complicated to investigate because it needs an independent body to investigate it. When you investigate people within the justice system, people you work with every day, they're pretty much familiar with who you are, and that creates an issue. But on the level of it, I think it is increasing.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Gibson, the OPP indicated it had set up a unit within the OPP in Ontario, but I share with Chief Hanson that concern of them investigating themselves.

Is there anything going on at the provincial level for some type of independent body being established to conduct these types of investigations?

[Brian Gibson]

Yes. We've set up ASIRT. It's provincial and chaired by a lawyer. He has investigatives. He seconds them from the police services at this point in time.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Can the investigation he would be conducting result in criminal charges?

[Brian Gibson]

Yes.