Justice Committee on Feb. 28th, 2012

[David Chen]

No, the Lucky Moose only opened three years ago.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Okay. And during that three-year period, were a lot of things stolen from you?

[David Chen]

Yes.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Would you say this happened on a daily basis?

[David Chen]

I saw many things go missing. Sometimes I could get a bit back because I saw someone stealing; sometimes I couldn't get anything. I witness it every day.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You've become quite famous in your neighbourhood, in Chinatown. Is that fair to say?

[David Chen]

Yes, many people know me.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Would you say that the theft has dropped considerably since people came to understand that you're not going to allow them to steal?

[David Chen]

Yes. One thing I'm doing is we installed more cameras in the store, and we can print pictures from the computer. I can look at pictures of those persons who came and stole the last time. If that guy comes again, I can keep my eyes on him.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Wouldn't you say that the recognition this case has brought you has made people stop stealing from you as much, because they know you're going to arrest them?

[David Chen]

Yes.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

That's great. Thank you, Mr. Chen, and congratulations.

Mr. Battista, you mentioned some criticisms of this scenario. I recognize some of those. What would you suggest would be a reasonable time?

[Giuseppe Battista]

The difficulty with that is--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I understand the interpretation issue, but I'm asking you specifically in relation to Mr. Chen's case, what would you suggest would be a reasonable time?

[Giuseppe Battista]

I think that when an individual apprehends someone he has seen and knows has committed the offence, then they can apprehend that person.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

So on sight, on time, at the very time of the incident.

[Giuseppe Battista]

Yes, and that doesn't mean on the second. There is sometimes a bit of a delay. Our concern is that when we introduce the notion of reasonable delay, we're necessarily extending the time. The courts had recognized a standard of time.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You also recognize, as Ms. Shi said, that the offence isn't actually committed until the person goes outside the store. At that time, it's already too late, based on the law as some people would interpret it.

[Giuseppe Battista]

Honestly, I don't think there's any judicial interpretation that says that when a person walks out of the store and is apprehended, that person is not committing the offence. The offence is being committed. And I don't think you think that either.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I would agree.

I had a business for a time from my parents, and my job was to catch shoplifters. I had many people outrun me—I'm not a very fast runner. I can assure you that we were told by law enforcement that we couldn't arrest those people or apprehend them or stop them until they left the premises. Catching them at that time is a foot race.

Ms. Dufour, I tried to find you on the Internet and it was very difficult. Were you the same Ms. Dufour who was on the working group on adoption in Quebec, for the Quebec government?

[Nicole Dufour]

Yes.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You testified for the Senate committee on cannabis facts for Canadians. Was that you? You testified in front of the Senate?

[Nicole Dufour]

No.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Were you a panellist for the Liberal biennial convention, the 2012 policy session?

[Nicole Dufour]

A speaker, yes.