Mr. Chairman, I think we brought up enough examples—and there are more—saying that these are not just some sundry exceptions, and one can go on. It wasn't just the 30 years of abandonment; it was also the question of adoption and so on. They're different issues. Apart from the fact that we may have different provincial definitions of the term “parent”, just as we have different definitions. It's mère ou père in French, and “parent” in English. All these things bring up complicating factors. Again, I say that it's somewhat premature.
My colleagues opposite say we can trust the judges to be able to make the appropriate judgments and understanding. Precisely. That's why I wonder why we have this mandatory minimum to begin with. If we can trust the judges, and they can make those kinds of judgments, then we don't need the mandatory. They can make that kind of judgment and tailor the situation to the particular circumstance with regard to the offence and the offender at hand. The more they speak, I think the more they're making my point as to why we shouldn't have a mandatory minimum.
I might add, Mr. Chairman, that you ruled my particular amendment out of order. I understand that. But then, again, this legislation prescribes, as it says in this summary, “...a minimum punishment of five years when a kidnap victim is under sixteen years of age”. It doesn't speak of any amendments. In this sense, their amendment is also a way of going contrary to the initial principle of the legislation. I would like to have a ruling as to whether that's out of order, given that the same principle is involved.