Justice Committee on July 7th, 2014

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

And it's the political branch that takes that part. So is it my understanding that you did give pros and cons, even for what we have here?

[Donald Piragoff]

Yes.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

What would be the cons?

[Donald Piragoff]

Well, there would be whatever the pros would be for decriminalization or full criminalization, or full decriminalization—

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

So enlighten us.

[Donald Piragoff]

—would be a con.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Specify it, because not everyone around the table and hearing this is necessarily a lawyer. Give us the gist of the pros and cons.

[Donald Piragoff]

The pros of this bill are that it responds to Bedford.

Bedford found that the existing fee provisions infringed section 7 charter rights of sex workers because it prevented them from taking measures to protect themselves while they were engaged in a risky but legal activity.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

So what does Bill C-36 do, and which clause answers to that?

[Donald Piragoff]

In particular, the areas that the court found to be of concern were that sex workers were not able to sell sex from fixed indoor locations. They had to keep moving around because the definition of bawdy house was such that if a place was used more than once, it became a bawdy house. Second, the offence of living on the avails of prostitution did not distinguish between exploitive conduct and non-exploitive conduct, so therefore people were not able to hire bodyguards or other people in order to protect them. Third, the breadth of the communicating offence, which was communicating in all circumstances, was prohibited, and denied them the ability to negotiate safer conditions.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

This way, the criminal activity always rests on the customer. If I've understood the bill correctly, there are no exceptions to that, even if the sex worker provides their services indoors, as you just mentioned, or engages in—

“legal advertisement”, in the sense of what you are saying.

Am I correct to say that in this bill, at all times, clients will be viewed as engaging in a criminal act?

[Donald Piragoff]

The purchasers of sexual services are criminalized for offering to purchase or purchasing in any place, so location, any time—

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

How does that make it more secure and more...?

You didn't go as far as declaring prostitution illegal in Canada. I still can't fathom the sense of it.

[Donald Piragoff]

May I take you back to the objectives that the minister mentioned?

Bill C-36's overall objectives are to reduce the demand—

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

But I'm talking about Bedford, sir. I'm talking about Bedford.

[Donald Piragoff]

That's what I'm responding to.

The overall objective of Bill C-36 is to reduce prostitution, discourage entry into prostitution, and to deter participation. It also recognizes that the process of trying to deter prostitution is not an easy avenue, and that in the course of that people who engage in prostitution and selling sexual services need to be protected.

Therefore, Bill C-36 would allow—

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

So the only protection is not to do it.

[Donald Piragoff]

Well, no. It would allow the provision of sexual services in indoor locations, either—

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

To no client.

[Donald Piragoff]

—independently or collectively. It will permit a person to hire bodyguards.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

But to no clients.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Okay. Anyway—

[Donald Piragoff]

This is not the only place in criminal law where we have asymmetrical criminal law. We have asymmetrical criminal law in suicide. It is not an offence to commit suicide; it's an offence to aid someone. That's asymmetrical.

It is an offence to sell drugs; it is not an offence to purchase drugs. There is no offence of buying drugs. It is an offence to sell drugs. However, the buyer could of course be criminalized by aiding the seller to sell the drugs, by—

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Except that with prostitution it usually takes two to tango. Well, not necessarily two, but anyway—