Justice Committee on July 7th, 2014

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses.

I just want to say to Ms. Sullivan, Ms. Falle, and through you, Ms. Gallant, to Monica Forrester, that I think you're very brave for coming here and telling us your stories, and I want to thank you for doing that. It's very difficult for us as legislators to really understand what takes place in an industry like this without hearing your stories, so thank you for that.

I just want to respond quickly to Ms. Sullivan. You were concerned that Bill C-36 would criminalize a sex worker who was carrying on the practice in her home where her children would be present. The answer is simple: that is not a public place so it wouldn't be caught under that provision. I just want to reassure you on that.

For Ms. Forrester through Ms. Gallant, she said that she asked to be corrected. She was wrong that we weren't hearing from any other indigenous people in the sex business—

[Chanelle Gallant]

Current indigenous sex workers.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

We did hear from one previously, as you know, and we will be hearing from the Native Women's Association of Canada later in the week. I understand that they, for example, believe in the criminalization of the purchase of sex in the Nordic model.

[Chanelle Gallant]

I understand they do, and I do not believe that any of their witnesses will be current indigenous sex workers.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Okay, but there are former sex workers.

[Chanelle Gallant]

That's right, and that's why I'm making the point to talk about people who will currently be impacted by the legislation. Former workers will not be.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Okay, we'll hear what they have to say about what they think the impact will be.

The other thing that was mentioned by Ms. McDonald was that this bans all forms of advertising. That's just not true. There is provision for advertising done in a way that's by the individual himself or herself that would allow them to do it in a way without exploitation.

You mentioned something I thought was curious. You said that you believed that sex worker groups the world over unanimously favour decriminalization.

[Jean McDonald]

That's right.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

But we hear from the organization that Ms. Sullivan and Ms. Matte represent, from Ms. Falle, and from a number of other organizations, and will hear from other organizations that are both women's groups and groups that represent sex workers, who do favour the criminalization of the purchase of sex, the so-called Nordic model. So I don't understand why you say—

[Jean McDonald]

I would go back to what Chanelle was just saying that the sex workers groups I'm talking about are predominantly if not fully made up of people who are currently in the sex industry. There's a big difference, a huge difference, between someone who will actually be impacted themself by this legislation and—

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

You will agree with me that there are organizations that represent sex workers that—

[Jean McDonald]

No.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

You're saying that nowhere in the world, Canada or any other place in the world, are there organizations that represent current sex workers that believe in this model.

[Jean McDonald]

Yes, current.... There are no—

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Can I hear from Ms. Matte?

[Jean McDonald]

Are you current sex workers?

[Natasha Falle]

Some of our advocates are. You just have to go onto our website to look at that.

[Jean McDonald]

I find that hard to believe.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

There seems to be some disagreement on that point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Mr. Dechert, could you focus your questions so we have questions and one person answers?

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Sure, I'll focus. I just have one more thing for Ms. McDonald.

In answer to a question from Madam Boivin about the elimination of prostitution, you said, first of all, that you didn't think that was possible. It was kind of curious, and maybe I got it wrong, but I thought you said that you wouldn't support the elimination of prostitution if that were an option. That wouldn't be something that you supported. Is that what you said?

[Jean McDonald]

Yes, absolutely. For me, it is not something that I would like to see happen. I would prefer that prostitution be decriminalized, because as—

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

You don't want to see it eliminated is my point. Is that correct? I just want to understand that point. You wouldn't want to see prostitution ended.

[Jean McDonald]

The Prostitution Reform Act 2003 of New Zealand recognized the harm done to sex workers, and that is why they decided to decriminalize. In fact, the intent of that legislation was to create a framework to safeguard the human rights of sex workers and to protect them from exploitation, to promote the welfare and occupational health and safety of sex workers.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Okay, the point I just want to understand—