Evidence of meeting #48 for Justice and Human Rights in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rights.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Arlène Gaudreault  President, Association québécoise Plaidoyer-Victimes
Lucien Landry  President, Comité des Orphelins de Duplessis Victimes d'Abus
Tony Doussot  Representative, Comité des Orphelins de Duplessis Victimes d'Abus
Timea E. Nagy  Founder and Program Director, Walk With Me Canada Victim Services
Dawn Harvard  Vice-President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Paul Smith  Chief of Police, Victims of Crime Committee, Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police
Jill Skinner  Deputy Chief of Police, Victims of Crime Committee, Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police
Janet Handy  Executive Director, Kristen French Child Advocacy Centre Niagara
Teresa Edwards  Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Thank you for that question, and thank you for those answers.

Our next questioner is Madame Péclet from the New Democratic Party.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to thank all the witnesses who are here today. This important group of experts has supplied us with a lot of information. I will try to keep my questions for the various witnesses brief.

Ms. Gaudreault, in your professional and personal experience, what is the biggest barrier victims face when it comes to accessing justice and having their rights recognized? What is the most common complaint you hear?

October 28th, 2014 / 5:05 p.m.

President, Association québécoise Plaidoyer-Victimes

Arlène Gaudreault

I would say it's the lack of information and understanding around the complexity of the justice system and the difficulty victims encounter in trying to have their views considered.

When a bill like this one proposes that victims be informed after guilty plea agreements are reached, in the absence of any mechanism compelling prosecutors to inform victims before a guilty plea agreement is made and assure them that their views will be taken into account, we have to recognize how upsetting that is for victims. That is something that has been criticized for years. In terms of the victim's right to be heard, that is a component of the bill that could be beefed up.

As far as I'm concerned, the problem has to do with information at every stage of the judicial process. It's important that the victims bill of rights enshrine the right to information, but how will that measure be implemented? That will affect, for instance, the Young Offenders Act and therefore thousands of victims. But that is a different system when it comes to sentencing and its underlying principles. Victims within that system also have the right to information, whether it's knowing the identity of the young offender or obtaining detailed information about the judicial and extrajudicial sanctions, something the bill does not provide for. Nor does the bill address witnesses' rights.

There is still a long way to go in order to clarify what victims will be entitled to at every single stage and what responsibilities each member of the justice system will have.

In my view, clearer information is available to victims at the time of sentencing. Information around the mechanism is also clearer thanks to the ombudsman's involvement at that stage. Clarity around all the other stages leading up to the sentence is necessary. Bear in mind that the right to information dates back to 1989.

Earlier, Ms. Bennett asked a question about funding for resources. If the intention was to improve things for victims through restitution—as you mentioned, Ms. Handy—all the provinces would've had compensation programs long ago. That provision has been in the Criminal Code since 1988, and yet Manitoba is the only province that currently offers such a program. It's still being talked about, and the thinking is that someone who cannot afford it will be the one who has to pay, despite the fact that no compensation program exists. If there really was a will to do something, compensation programs would be set up in every province with the federal government's help. Up until 1993, the federal government funded compensation programs; after that, it stopped. Some territories and provinces, such as Newfoundland and Labrador, have no compensation programs, while others have programs that provide very little in the way of compensation.

When you talk about victims' needs, it's important to understand that only a minority turn to the justice system. Some 10% of sexual assault victims do not file a complaint, and only 25% to 28% of domestic violence victims file a complaint. Other victims need access to services, and compensation programs do not provide them with that. It is not the judges—

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Forgive me for interrupting, Ms. Gaudreault. In summary, you have a lot—

5:10 p.m.

President, Association québécoise Plaidoyer-Victimes

Arlène Gaudreault

I wanted to talk about compensation and information.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Basically—

5:10 p.m.

President, Association québécoise Plaidoyer-Victimes

Arlène Gaudreault

We agree that compensation does not fall under the justice system.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

The proposed bill—

5:10 p.m.

President, Association québécoise Plaidoyer-Victimes

Arlène Gaudreault

The first right is the right to information.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Do you think the bill will rectify the problems that exist today?

5:10 p.m.

President, Association québécoise Plaidoyer-Victimes

Arlène Gaudreault

No. If the provinces and territories don't take action to implement the bill and if the federal government does not allocate any resources, we will be in the same boat. This will not change things for victims.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

The federal government, then, should instead fund programs for victims.

5:10 p.m.

President, Association québécoise Plaidoyer-Victimes

Arlène Gaudreault

It has to support all the efforts of the provinces and come to an agreement with them on what they intend to do. As things stand, we don't know what they will do with this bill of rights. No provincial justice minister has said that they support the bill or that it will achieve all kinds of things.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

That's quite interesting. It really shows that these practices are already commonplace and that the problem does not necessarily lie in the legislation but, rather, in its implementation.

5:10 p.m.

President, Association québécoise Plaidoyer-Victimes

Arlène Gaudreault

It should, nevertheless, be said that a lot of things are being done in Canada.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

I don't have much time left. I have a question for the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police.

Clause 9 of the bill concerns the security of victims. Not much has been said about that clause. We've talked a lot about the right to information—which I know is the biggest problem—but clause 9 states that the appropriate authorities in the criminal justice system must see to victims' security.

What does that mean for government and police, who are the appropriate authorities in the criminal justice system with the responsibility of ensuring victims' security? How will that right be implemented by the appropriate authorities? At this point, we don't know much about how that provision will be implemented.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Can you give a very succinct answer to that question, please?

5:10 p.m.

Chief of Police, Victims of Crime Committee, Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police

Chief Paul Smith

Policing takes responsibility for the safety of victims very seriously. We would have to work collectively with all our partners to ensure this is underscored, and those safety measures are put in place from our discussions with the crown, right through to the courts.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Thank you very much for those questions and answers.

Our next questioner is Mr. Calkins from the Conservative Party.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Let me start by saying something that's on my mind, given the time of year that we're approaching and the recent events we've had here; I thank everybody for acknowledging that. You know, for the freedoms and rights that we enjoyed yesterday, we should always remember to thank our veterans. For the peace, safety, and order that we have every day, we should thank our peace officers. For the freedoms and rights and liberties we'll have tomorrow, we should thank our soldiers. On behalf of my constituents, I want to thank you in the law enforcement field for what you do every day to keep us safe, and thank you for your kind words at the start of the meeting.

However, my comments and questions will go to Ms. Handy, to start with, just to make sure that everybody gets an opportunity to answer some questions here.

First of all, I want to acknowledge the work your organization does. You recently changed your name to the Kristen French Child Advocacy Centre. Is that correct?

5:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Kristen French Child Advocacy Centre Niagara

Janet Handy

That's correct, yes.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

That was obviously named after a victim of what was, at least in my lifetime, one of the most horrific things in Canada that we've ever seen portrayed through the news and through the courts and so on. I want to say thank you for the good work that you and your folks do there.

I'm wondering what your organization's opinion would be of the provisions that we have in the bill to release an updated picture of an offender to the victim once their incarceration is over. How important is that, and what value would that particular change have?

5:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Kristen French Child Advocacy Centre Niagara

Janet Handy

I would want to say that the victims themselves should determine that, what the value is to them, that this isn't a uniform requirement that victims have. Some people never want to see the perpetrator again, and others do want to see them. I think this provision is important, for people to have the choice as a victim. I'm not sure it should be automatic.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

No, I agree. That's an important distinction to have, obviously.

The victims bill of rights also provides the opportunity to have a representative be with the victim for their testimony, and when they present their impact statement, if I have this right. Could you give us some examples or tell us how this will have an impact or benefit, particularly for young people?

5:15 p.m.

Executive Director, Kristen French Child Advocacy Centre Niagara

Janet Handy

The child advocacy centres have a model of a family advocate, who is the touch person they can connect with from the beginning, from the moment they walk in the door through to the trial. If that family connects with that family advocate, then that person can go to court. They often become the familiar face throughout the process and lessen the fear. It keeps consistency in terms of information about the system itself, and allows people, especially young people, to have a sense of security throughout the system. The idea of the family advocate is to change the interview process to one time telling their story from what was previously up to seven times telling their story, over and over again.

For a child, developmentally it's critical to have a single secure person for them to relate to and to be available at any point that testimony is given. Hopefully the recorded information goes forward rather than the child, but in the event that the child is asked to come to court, having that extra person is important. Having a special prosecutor who has child-relating skills is important, and also having child-friendly courts, where the child doesn't see the perpetrator.